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NSA Spying On Other Countries


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#1 BrotherBridges

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:42 PM

Not even a thread here about this story? Something tells me, if we had a Republican administration, not only would there be a thread, but we would be calling for trials and resignations of those responsible, right up to the top. I'd bet the media would be making a much bigger deal about it, too!



#2 JustDan

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:52 PM

I've learned that....in terms of foreign policy, there are no Dems & GOPers anymore. Particularly it now seems, with the past two administrations.

The way I see it, here's the deal.....They spy on us [& dont think they dont], we spy on them. That's how the game of international diplomacy is currently played & will probably continue to be played for some time to come.



#3 Cozmic Kid

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

Not even a thread here about this story? Something tells me, if we had a Republican administration, not only would there be a thread, but we would be calling for trials and resignations of those responsible, right up to the top. I'd bet the media would be making a much bigger deal about it, too!

I commented on it a while back.

 

It's a fucking dosgrace and heads must roll.


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#4 LostSoul

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:15 PM

I think we've all seen enough Spooks, James Bond, Tom Clancy films for this not to be a surprise really.



#5 HeroOfVirtue

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

Not even a thread here about this story? Something tells me, if we had a Republican administration, not only would there be a thread, but we would be calling for trials and resignations of those responsible, right up to the top. I'd bet the media would be making a much bigger deal about it, too!

 

Oh my freaking Christ, why try to make everything a political party issue? What good does that do?

 

Dan's got it: "in terms of foreign policy, there are no Dems & GOPers anymore." Just one wretched blob of villainous idiocy.


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#6 the calvary

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:24 PM

I think BB's point about there being a very different response because it's not the Rep's doing it is right. It's not so much a party political issue, more an issue of how the political system really works, and you see it working very well here.

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#7 Tom-Joad

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

I just wonder how the US would react if the German or French intellegence agency was spying on the President...


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#8 the calvary

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:06 PM

They possibly are. Spying is done secretly, so by its nature, no one is really sure who's doing what to whom. And from what I've read today, it's possible that EU countries passed some if the info to the US.

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#9 HeroOfVirtue

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:29 PM

I just wonder how the US would react if the German or French intellegence agency was spying on the President...

 

Well, their assumption is that what they're doing is ok because they figure the rest of the world is spying on America, too. They're probably right. I'd bet everything I own that European nations spy on us. But that doesn't make it right.


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#10 RummagingBedouin

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:03 PM

Don't think it's a particularly good idea but I thought every country did as much spying on others (friendly and non-friendly) as possible.


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#11 Power13

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:47 AM

I just wonder how the US would react if the German or French intellegence agency was spying on the President...


Yes, it is only us big, bad Americans who spy on other countries.

Of course they are spying on us!!

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#12 Tom-Joad

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:25 AM

 

I just wonder how the US would react if the German or French intellegence agency was spying on the President...


Yes, it is only us big, bad Americans who spy on other countries.

Of course they are spying on us!!

 

 

Yes, they most likely are. What I meant was what would the US do if it came to public that some foreign intelligence agency was spying on Obama. Everyone just assumes every big country spies on every other big country but that's nothing more than an assumption, isn't it?

 

And no-one said you were "bad" because you spy on other countries. Not everyone hates you. It's just apart from a few outraged people, European institutions took all of this very lightly and I highly doubt it would be taken as lightly if it was the other way around.


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#13 BillyB

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:46 AM

Not even a thread here about this story? Something tells me, if we had a Republican administration, not only would there be a thread, but we would be calling for trials and resignations of those responsible, right up to the top. I'd bet the media would be making a much bigger deal about it, too!

 

I get a kick when a story like this hits.  I think the White House is sticking to the 'we didn't know this was going on' defense.  It cracks me up that certain FC contributors have nothing to say about this. At least until a spin can be put on all this that blames the prior administration for the whole mess.



#14 Cozmic Kid

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:59 AM


Not even a thread here about this story? Something tells me, if we had a Republican administration, not only would there be a thread, but we would be calling for trials and resignations of those responsible, right up to the top. I'd bet the media would be making a much bigger deal about it, too!

 
I get a kick when a story like this hits.  I think the White House is sticking to the 'we didn't know this was going on' defense.  It cracks me up that certain FC contributors have nothing to say about this. At least until a spin can be put on all this that blames the prior administration for the whole mess.
The issue is the White House may acrually not know how widespread it is.
The Bush admin "invented" this shit and now it has grown out of proportions and is too big to control properly. They need to cut back on what these agencies can do.

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#15 HeroOfVirtue

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:34 PM

The issue is the White House may acrually not know how widespread it is.

 

This seems to be 100% the case. The shit the NSA has been doing has been completely unsupervised and unregulated.

 

They need to cut back on what these agencies can do.

 

Exactly. I obviously understand the need for something like the NSA, but honestly short of dismantling that organization and creating something similar but with more regulation from the ground up, I don't see how they right the course. And the people supposedly in charge have either no interest or no power to change this.


We know that come tomorrow, none of this will be here

So hold tight to your anger, hold tight to your anger
Hold tight to your anger, and don't fall to your fear


Take your best shot, let me see what you've got, bring on your wrecking ball.

 

My City of Ruins: Bruce Springsteen and the American Reaction to Disaster


#16 Cozmic Kid

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:04 PM

 

The issue is the White House may acrually not know how widespread it is.

 

This seems to be 100% the case. The shit the NSA has been doing has been completely unsupervised and unregulated.

 

They need to cut back on what these agencies can do.

 

Exactly. I obviously understand the need for something like the NSA, but honestly short of dismantling that organization and creating something similar but with more regulation from the ground up, I don't see how they right the course. And the people supposedly in charge have either no interest or no power to change this.

 

And all because of the panic that followed after 9/11. Bush/Cheney pissed their pants out of fear and came up with panic solutions. Now it pretty much have a life of it's own and has to be stoipped befire it goes REALLY wrong.

 

In a way you can compare it to Skynet in the Terminator movies.


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#17 Welby

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:46 PM

They possibly are. Spying is done secretly, so by its nature, no one is really sure who's doing what to whom. And from what I've read today, it's possible that EU countries passed some if the info to the US.


Maybe they could locate his jump shot.
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#18 JimCT

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:38 PM

http://www.bloomberg...ban-on-sex.html

 

"All countries spy to protect their national interests and none will renounce the practice."


In honor of Milton Friedman's birthday

 

 ”Fundamentally, there are only two ways of co-ordinating the economic activities of millions. One is central direction involving the use of coercion—the technique of the army and of the modern totalitarian state. The other is voluntary co-operation of individuals—the technique of the market place.”

 

”Indeed, a major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it does this task [protects individuals against coercion] so well. It gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.”

 

”a society which is socialist cannot also be democratic, in the sense of guaranteeing individual freedom.”

 

”These then are the basic roles of government in a free society: to provide a means whereby we can modify the rules, to mediate differences among us on the meaning of the rules, and to enforce compliance with the rules on the part of those few who would otherwise not play the game.”





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