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The Man City Thread: The Pep Years


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I had a day off today and, at one point, I found myself in Asda in Inverness.   Two young lads, I'd guess no older than 20ish, who worked there were chatting in one of the aisles when I pass

So they have to be punished. The whole "yeah, but others do it too" is just an admission of guilt. I understand it stings, but City agreed to the FFP rules, then went on to break them anyway. Serves t

a good story David Silva's prematurely born son leaves hospital   https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44133675

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29 minutes ago, AMIW said:

man city extend mangalas contract even though he hasn't even made the comfy seats in years!

https://sports.yahoo.com/manchester-city-outcast-mangala-handed-211047336.html?src=rss

He's been injured most of the year. I believe they needed to get him under contract so he couldn't just walk. Loan out or sell this summer. 

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47 minutes ago, AMIW said:

Having ordered a Chinese takeaway a few weeks ago Man City and now ordering Indian

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/05/manchester-city-owners-plan-to-buy-indian-club-and-expand-global-portfolio

Hopefully City Group doesn't invest any money into the club as they may get slapped with a FFP. Craziest thing I ever heard professional sports. 

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21 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

Can I ask how do you built a brand if you don't spend money? 

You can spend money. As I understand it, the FFP rules are a club-by-club test, so think of each team as a subsidiary of the holding company (which is the actual structure, I think). Then the FFP test is for Man City itself - the holding company can buy teams (which is not part of any FFP test anyway).

Without FFP, those "stupid money" owners can essentially buy their way to success and crush the others. If you want the EPL / La Liga / Ligue 1 / Bundesliga / Serie A / Eredivisie to be able to compete against each other meaningfully then all have to be subject to the same rules.

One of the things the authorities will no doubt look at closely going forward is whether/how City tries to indirectly subsidize the top team - favorable player transfers, parking players at subsidiary teams, even advertising at the subsidiary team for the benefit of the top team, as the other teams are not subject to FFP. If you run losses at the other teams and that acts to transfer value into the top team, that's a violation of FFP.

 

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Thanks for that Jim and I get the whole system. But I'll say again Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barca, Real, Bayren and PSG have created their world wide appeal some time ago. And have reaped rewards with that branding. So the only other way other clubs can compete with them is by spending monies they do have to spend. From what I've read on this FFP, was put in so clubs don't go belly up spending outrageous amount of money. As we all know City has the money. 

So if everyone is happen with United, Liverpool, Barca and Real winning every year without competition. Than this is a good system.    

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6 minutes ago, doesthisbusstop said:

If found guilty and banned from uefa competition next season, would they be stripped of the CL title if they win it this season? 

Only in your mind. As reality is still reality. But let's not jump ahead of things. 

Soon enough, United, LFC, Barca, Real and Bayren will be able to buy all the players needed to keep club football interesting. 

The UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations (FFP) were established to prevent professional football clubs spending more than they earn in the pursuit of success and in doing so getting into financial problems which might threaten their long-term survival.[1]

Please read that statement, and tell me if anyone thinks City and or PSG will have financial problems?

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

Only in your mind. As reality is still reality. But let's not jump ahead of things. 

Soon enough, United, LFC, Barca, Real and Bayren will be able to buy all the players needed to keep club football interesting. 

The UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations (FFP) were established to prevent professional football clubs spending more than they earn in the pursuit of success and in doing so getting into financial problems which might threaten their long-term survival.[1]

Please read that statement, and tell me if anyone thinks City and or PSG will have financial problems?

They would have problems if their investors back out. 

A more effective way would be a salary cap, but that would be very difficult to establish. 

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So you believe these two dude don't have enough money to support their respective clubs? 

 Nasser bin Ghanim Al-Khelaïfi - PSG.

Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan - Man City

Keep in mind - United lost over $30 million last year after spending like $90 mil. So why aren't they in the mix? 

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1 hour ago, Jimmy James said:

So you believe these two dude don't have enough money to support their respective clubs? 

 Nasser bin Ghanim Al-Khelaïfi - PSG.

Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan - Man City

Keep in mind - United lost over $30 million last year after spending like $90 mil. So why aren't they in the mix? 

I don't know their financials, but I assume United can cover their expenses with "legitimate" sponsoring deals, while City and PSG need their owners to funnel money into the club to balance the books. 

Imagine Mansour backs out for whatever reason. How would City finance their squad? How could they generate enough income to keep the boat afloat, when it's all money out of his own pocket or via his companies?

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3 minutes ago, LeoGetz said:

I don't know their financials, but I assume United can cover their expenses with "legitimate" sponsoring deals, while City and PSG need their owners to funnel money into the club to balance the books. 

True Man Utd even have an Official Tractor Partner, Mattress Partner, Feature Film partner etc ... :lol:

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42 minutes ago, AMIW said:

True Man Utd even have an Official Tractor Partner, Mattress Partner, Feature Film partner etc ... :lol:

City has a pretty impressive list of partnerships also, but that's not what Leo (FFP) is saying. 

What I think he's (FFP) saying, a team should survive on it's own, with no help from ownership group? I find this hard to believe. 

With this thinking most of MLB and NHL couldn't survive.  

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I especially like the part about reopening past inquiries :) Why would you fine someone for violating FFP, and then allow them to play UCL with its €70mm TV payday? Makes no sense.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-city/story/3793760/uefa-to-investigate-manchester-city-over-potential-ffp-breaches

The European football governing body said in a statement: "The Investigatory Chamber of the independent UEFA Club Financial Control Body has today opened a formal investigation into Manchester City FC for potential breaches of Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations.

"The investigation will focus on several alleged violations of FFP that were recently made public in various media outlets.

"UEFA will make no further comments on the matter while the investigation is ongoing."

A statement from the club said: "Manchester City welcomes the opening of a formal UEFA investigation as an opportunity to bring to an end the speculation resulting from the illegal hacking and out of context publication of City emails. The accusation of financial irregularities are entirely false. The Club's published accounts are full and complete and a matter of legal and regulatory record."

City have already been punished for violating FFP, striking an agreement in 2014 that saw them fined rather than banned from the Champions League for inflated sponsorship deals with companies linked to the club or their ownership. UEFA said last month that evidence from Football Leaks could lead to past cases being re-opened.

If found guilty, it has been claimed that City could face a potential ban from the Champions League.

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6 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

City has a pretty impressive list of partnerships also, but that's not what Leo (FFP) is saying. 

What I think he's (FFP) saying, a team should survive on it's own, with no help from ownership group? I find this hard to believe. 

With this thinking most of MLB and NHL couldn't survive.  

But doesn't the salary cap keep US teams from over-spending, same as the UEFA is trying to do with FFP?

 

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10 hours ago, LeoGetz said:

But doesn't the salary cap keep US teams from over-spending, same as the UEFA is trying to do with FFP?

 

There isn't a Salary Cap in Baseball, there is a luxury tax. Mostly for big market clubs(NYY, NYM, LAD, LAA, Boston....)

In the NHL, if ownership groups didn't infuse there clubs with cash, half the league would fold. 

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2 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

Let's face it, if Man City and PSG hadn't arrived with there truck load of money, How would you think United, LFC, Barca, Real and Bayern look right now. 

I don't know what you mean. United, Barça, etc., would probably be happier because they would have less competition.

The point is, that without FFP, clubs like City or PSG would have a big advantage over clubs like Barça for example, because their owners could pump as much money into the club as they want. Inflated transfer fees and wages already have many big clubs scraping the bottom of the barrell, because of course they want to compete. But that gets harder and harder every year.

Personally I don't really care. Because I strongly believe that clubs could counter that trend by investing into their youth systems. All they would need is proper regulation to protect the clubs developing the players. I remember when Arsenal and United lured Fabregas and Pique away from Barcelona with big money contracts, because laws prohibited Barça from offering them similar contracts themselves. But the 2011 Barça team, one of the greatest teams in football history, had at times 7 or 8 homegrown players in the team. The starting 11 of the CL final 2011 cost less than what Chelsea paid for Kepa.

Barça neglected their youth academy over the last decade. The result is that they now have to buy players like Dembele for 140 million or Coutinho for 180 million. To run La Masia, the youth academy, costs about 15 million a year.

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The principle of FFP to me should be to stop a multi billionaire just buying a club, winning a few trophies and then selling it when they get bored or the financial bubble bursts. 

If a Sheikh billionaire bought Espanyol and a few years later they were beating Barca and Real Madrid to la liga and CL titles with his own money then good for them, but at the end of the day what would it really mean to anyone. 

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1 hour ago, LeoGetz said:

I don't know what you mean. United, Barça, etc., would probably be happier because they would have less competition.

The point is, that without FFP, clubs like City or PSG would have a big advantage over clubs like Barça for example, because their owners could pump as much money into the club as they want. Inflated transfer fees and wages already have many big clubs scraping the bottom of the barrell, because of course they want to compete. But that gets harder and harder every year.

Personally I don't really care. Because I strongly believe that clubs could counter that trend by investing into their youth systems. All they would need is proper regulation to protect the clubs developing the players. I remember when Arsenal and United lured Fabregas and Pique away from Barcelona with big money contracts, because laws prohibited Barça from offering them similar contracts themselves. But the 2011 Barça team, one of the greatest teams in football history, had at times 7 or 8 homegrown players in the team. The starting 11 of the CL final 2011 cost less than what Chelsea paid for Kepa.

Barça neglected their youth academy over the last decade. The result is that they now have to buy players like Dembele for 140 million or Coutinho for 180 million. To run La Masia, the youth academy, costs about 15 million a year.

Wasn't it sweet to watch Ajax, with a team payroll about the same as just Gareth Bale makes, kick Real all over the pitch :)

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