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St. Louis 8/23/2008 is newest archive release!!!!


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Downloaded the show and bought the CD.   A decent one - but very overrated.  Despite touring on the back of a good album, it's a shame he feels the need to play so many covers.  The Wrecking Ball shows easily outclass this show imo. 

Not sure what Clarence is doing during Dancing in the Dark.  It's like a toddler finding an old trumpet in the back of the closet.   I've also forgot how much the band had to accommodate him - a prime example is Bruce humming over the sax part in Girls in Their Summer Clothes.

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On 4/15/2017 at 5:04 PM, Bosstralian said:

I've started listening to it and enjoying it so far (up to Mountain of Love).

I must say I fall in the camp of also wishing for an earlier Magic tour show, with all the Magic songs in their set places along with Reason To Believe and that great closing 5 pack from Arcade through to Badlands. Akin to the Darkness and Tunnel tours in how specific songs (and not just a specific type of song) were in set places for the overall theme of the night.

I remember this St Louis show causing a stir even at the time due to the rarities. But it's interesting how it is considered a Reunion era classic, when there are many fans who bemoan the recent tendency towards unstructured free-for-all setlists with no overarching theme...... this St Louis show is in some ways the grandparent of those shows.

 

Great point.  I actually think that overall the late Magic tour setlists worked better than the recent wild setlist have. I do like rarities, and I do like shows to feature recent material. I think the Magic tour had the best combination of strong  new material, rare surprises, and the band playing very well. Clarence was past his prime of course, but he was still with us.

I have this show on bootleg (I wasn't there in person) and while I love the setlist on paper (half a dozen from Magic, a great bunch of covers, rare originals), for some reason the show has never left me wowed like I know it does for so many others. I don't tend to be an audiophile, so I'm not sure whether picking it up from Nugs will change my opinion of it, but I will probably buy it in order to support what Nugs does. I just bought two Nugs shows a few days before they announced this one.

 

 

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On 4/16/2017 at 10:43 AM, Demos said:

No.  I phrased it as a question so someone with the knowledge could let me know. Could have been some old blues guy.  

For what it is worth, The Beat Farmers covered RtB way back a long time ago - take a listen. Could Bruce have intentionally modelled his '07-'08 version on what they did?

 

 

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@Magnus, cheers I never heard that one, kind of sounds exactly like his own arrangement and I wouldn't be surprised if he heard this version.

@bobfan1976 sorry if I came across a bit too strong earlier on, I was posting with a dodgy cell phone on one of my pet peeves, not a good combination :D

I think those Blues artists are all too often discarded as simply old blues men playing generic blues riff they simply inherited down the line. There's this unbecoming tradition in R&R writing to downplay the importance of the riffs these guys came up with, composed while at the same time claiming brilliance for artists who simply applied what they learned from black music without adding too many new elements.

Chart success is often confused with originality and brilliance in writing R&R history, race and racism all too easily forgotten.

I found this great Bo Diddley interview from a few years back that addresses some of those issues.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-indestructible-beat-of-bo-diddley-20050825

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6 hours ago, bobfan1976 said:

I'm familiar with the plagiarism debate, yeah. It's a tough one. In the case of She's The One, I don't think there's enough of anything stolen for Bo to have a case. Although I'm sure the counter argument would be that the rhythm makes the song...I think it's a component for sure but...Oh, whatever the genesis of the riff for Reason To Believe, I don't believe it was a factor in deciding which Magic show to release. As you say you could easily say the same for She's The One.

We have a version of RTB from a later show, though (right?), so it's not a copyright issue.

1 hour ago, Magnus said:

 

Great point.  I actually think that overall the late Magic tour setlists worked better than the recent wild setlist have. I do like rarities, and I do like shows to feature recent material. I think the Magic tour had the best combination of strong  new material, rare surprises, and the band playing very well. Clarence was past his prime of course, but he was still with us.

I have this show on bootleg (I wasn't there in person) and while I love the setlist on paper (half a dozen from Magic, a great bunch of covers, rare originals), for some reason the show has never left me wowed like I know it does for so many others. I don't tend to be an audiophile, so I'm not sure whether picking it up from Nugs will change my opinion of it, but I will probably buy it in order to support what Nugs does. I just bought two Nugs shows a few days before they announced this one.

 

 

I agree in regard to the combo of good new material and rarities- IMO it was a good balance. 

I was at the STL show, and I'll concede that there are flaws in the performance that come across on the recording. I can understand how people who did not see the show can think it's overrated, and to that, I can only say that you had to be there. There was an intangible "vibe" about the being in the building that night that can't come across in a recording. The only way I can describe it (especially the encore) is that the energy felt to me like the energy at my first show in '81- I've never felt that at a show since besides St. Louis.

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Just had a chance to sit down and listen to the download and you can tell this one isn't turned around in a couple of weeks.  It's it mixed very clean and being able to pick out the individual instruments and how they blend together is something to behold.  I know everybody has their own feelings about shows but I think what makes this one stand out to many is a number of things.  The band was really energetic that night and it shows in a number of songs.  Also, the setlist has a little something for everyone and you never feel like it lacked in one area or another.   Sure, everybody wants to hear "that song" but it just felt complete.  Getting "not fade away" before she's the one gives you the vibe that it wasn't just a "standard night" and Mary's Place felt like you were down at the riverside at a rivival and your could do nothing but throw your hands up and be glad you were alive and witnessing something magical.

 

Like I said before, it made me a fan forever and when you walk out and feel as spent as they did that night, you know it's special.  Plus, this is St.Louis. Not the east or west coast or an international audience, the Midwest where even though there is a strong history of music here, the crowds are usually polite and appreciates an effort.  They got that and more that August night in 2008

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12 minutes ago, misty rain said:

We have a version of RTB from a later show, though (right?), so it's not a copyright issue.

I agree in regard to the combo of good new material and rarities- IMO it was a good balance. 

I was at the STL show, and I'll concede that there are flaws in the performance that come across on the recording. I can understand how people who did not see the show can think it's overrated, and to that, I can only say that you had to be there. There was an intangible "vibe" about the being in the building that night that can't come across in a recording. The only way I can describe it (especially the encore) is that the energy felt to me like the energy at my first show in '81- I've never felt that at a show since besides St. Louis.

Do I recall correctly that this was in an indoor arena too - and on a leg when many of the shows were in larger outdoor venues? I can see why that would have made for a special show. Enough people who were there swear by it (I don't think I've ever heard from someone who was there in person who didn't like the show) that I'm willing to go along with the idea that this really was a terrific epic show for those who were there. I'm just saying that the magic of the night hasn't come across to me in the bootlegged recording I've heard so far, and at the end of the day that's my loss.

If I could have chosen a Magic tour show to release I would have probably gone with a different one, but I'm very glad the Magic tour finally has an official release, and I hope nugs does well enough that they come around to releasing another show from this era eventually.

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15 minutes ago, Magnus said:

Do I recall correctly that this was in an indoor arena too - and on a leg when many of the shows were in larger outdoor venues? I can see why that would have made for a special show. Enough people who were there swear by it (I don't think I've ever heard from someone who was there in person who didn't like the show) that I'm willing to go along with the idea that this really was a terrific epic show for those who were there. I'm just saying that the magic of the night hasn't come across to me in the bootlegged recording I've heard so far, and at the end of the day that's my loss.

It was an indoor show, and in fact, that's one of the reasons I decided to make the trip, almost at the last minute. I already had tickets for the Harley anniversary a week later, but I wanted to see one more arena show before the tour ended. The fact it was indoors probably contributed to the specialness of the show, but Bruce plays a lot of shows indoors, so there was more at play. It was a perfect combination of setlist, performance, and the audience that came together just perfectly that night. It was like lighting in a bottle- truly. I can only write from my perspective, obviously, but for me, I could actually feel the energy escalating as the show went on- really extraordinary. Bruce truly seemed like he didn't want to leave the stage that night, and I really think if he didn't have the KC show the next night, we might have gotten another song after Twist and Shout. People will say that he always looks like he doesn't want to leave, but I've seen enough shows to know that this was different. When he ran back out to "play one for Sophie", it was just an incredible moment. :) I don't know if this recording captures the deafening cheer that went up at that point (I haven't downloaded it yet), but it's one of my favorite concert moments ever.

I don't think anyone could have predicted that this show would turn out like it did, and I'm not gloating at all by saying that you had to be there. But there really is no other way to understand what made it so special. 

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2 hours ago, SoulBoogieAlex said:

@Magnus, cheers I never heard that one, kind of sounds exactly like his own arrangement and I wouldn't be surprised if he heard this version.

@bobfan1976 sorry if I came across a bit too strong earlier on, I was posting with a dodgy cell phone on one of my pet peeves, not a good combination :D

I think those Blues artists are all too often discarded as simply old blues men playing generic blues riff they simply inherited down the line. There's this unbecoming tradition in R&R writing to downplay the importance of the riffs these guys came up with, composed while at the same time claiming brilliance for artists who simply applied what they learned from black music without adding too many new elements.

Chart success is often confused with originality and brilliance in writing R&R history, race and racism all too easily forgotten.

I found this great Bo Diddley interview from a few years back that addresses some of those issues.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-indestructible-beat-of-bo-diddley-20050825

I'll give it a read. It's a good point to raise. I recently watched Hail Hail Rock 'N' Roll in which Keef puts forward the theory that Chuck based his guitar riffs on Johnnie Johnson's piano playing, so it is problematic defining originality, or ascertaining the origins, when it comes to these riffs. In any case I love the Springsteen version of Reason To Believe which is obviously based on a popular blues riff of whatever origin. I'm not convinced it's Boogie Chillen though; if you listen to Hooker's original version it's nowhere to be heard.

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I personally think there's been better shows on subsequent tours. For better or worse musically Clarence was present though and that counts for something.

Magic was the start of Bruce finding his feet live with the band after the breakup. He was trying something different with the shorter show format although that soon went by the wayside. It's a very good show and I'm struck again by the brilliance of songs that would disappear from future setlists in place of older far inferior songs like Out In The Street, Darlington County etc. Girls in particular is a song which is the equal of 75% of his best work and the version from this show is incredible. I've always thought this tour was a rarity in that the live versions never quite peaked the recorded versions. 

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I think the Magic tour really was very special. We had just gotten two non ESB tours so we weren't taking the ESB for granted like spoiled kids yet, but  at the same time, with the 99-2004 time under their belts the ESB weren't spending time figuring  out how to play together again either.

There was tremendous anticipation for the Magic album, and I think most of us really liked it. Once they hit the road the initial shows were a little short, but explosive and intense. By the spring of 2008 the setlist were really heating up - remember that stretch when he opened with a different song every night for like two dozen shows?

Of course, this was also the tour in which we lost Danny. And while the band has gone on to do great things since his passing, his loss meant the end of an era. After Danny died, there would be more loss to come in the years ahead, and also a larger number of newer younger musicians onstage - from Jay Weinberg, to Jake Clemons, to Tom Morello, and many many more. Depending on how you count it, Boston 2007 or Indianapolis 2008 was the end of the Reunited E Street Band. The era that began after that - effectively in the middle of the Magic tour has led us to to 2017, and I am guessing is not over yet.

And this new ESB really hit the ground running - I remember people were unhappy with the short Cinci 2008 show, which took place right after the last time they played with Danny (and surely the band all understood that he wouldn't be back), but that Cinci show was incredibly intense, and for my money an excellent show in its own way. Then two nights later in Columbus they were back with a 2 and a half hour show that I remember as one of the best of the tour.  The summer 2008 shows were really special - I think with Danny's loss fresh in mind we all were really appreciating the band being there, and they brought their A game every night I saw them.

Has it really been nine years already?  Man, Glory Days.....

 

 

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9 hours ago, Growin' Up said:

Downloaded the show and bought the CD.   A decent one - but very overrated.  Despite touring on the back of a good album, it's a shame he feels the need to play so many covers.  The Wrecking Ball shows easily outclass this show imo. 

Not sure what Clarence is doing during Dancing in the Dark.  It's like a toddler finding an old trumpet in the back of the closet.   I've also forgot how much the band had to accommodate him - a prime example is Bruce humming over the sax part in Girls in Their Summer Clothes.

And yet you spent $33.00 on a download and a CD?

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18 hours ago, Growin' Up said:

Downloaded the show and bought the CD.   A decent one - but very overrated.  Despite touring on the back of a good album, it's a shame he feels the need to play so many covers.  The Wrecking Ball shows easily outclass this show imo. 

Not sure what Clarence is doing during Dancing in the Dark.  It's like a toddler finding an old trumpet in the back of the closet.   I've also forgot how much the band had to accommodate him - a prime example is Bruce humming over the sax part in Girls in Their Summer Clothes.

Clarence wasn't well that night. Word was that they had to call a doctor for him before the show, which was supposedly the reason the show started so late. He played the Drive All Night solo sitting down- this was before the "throne" made its appearance.

 

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10 hours ago, bobfan1976 said:

I'll give it a read. It's a good point to raise. I recently watched Hail Hail Rock 'N' Roll in which Keef puts forward the theory that Chuck based his guitar riffs on Johnnie Johnson's piano playing, so it is problematic defining originality, or ascertaining the origins, when it comes to these riffs. In any case I love the Springsteen version of Reason To Believe which is obviously based on a popular blues riff of whatever origin. I'm not convinced it's Boogie Chillen though; if you listen to Hooker's original version it's nowhere to be heard.

I'm surprised you don't hear the similarity between Boogie Chillun and La Grange. At the time the publisher of Boogie Chillun felt confident enough to file suit against ZZ Top only to find the claim invalid because the copyright had expired. ZZ Top still settled out of court and the claim contributed directly to changes in copyright law. Though admittedly, it does very much depend on the version you're listening to since the original version John Lee Hooker recorded varies from later versions he did with the likes of Canned Heat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogie_Chillen'#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEnglish200752.E2.80.9353-55

http://schleimerlaw.com/ELF298.htm

Bo's case is more complex since he sold his rights early on in his career but the influence of his beat is widely recognised

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/arts/pioneer-of-a-beat-is-still-riffing-for-his-due.html

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12 hours ago, misty rain said:

 

I don't think anyone could have predicted that this show would turn out like it did, and I'm not gloating at all by saying that you had to be there. But there really is no other way to understand what made it so special. 

I think this sums it up very well. I wasn't at the show but I've met fans who were there, in a couple of cases, people who've seen over 300 shows. They told me that the show had amazing energy and it was a show where you literally had no idea what could be played next. Many rate this show as the best of the reunion era and one of the best of the past 30 odd years.

I think yes, maybe you did have to be there.

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8 hours ago, riverdude2 said:

it was a show where you literally had no idea what could be played next

This is true also. By knowing the setlist beforehand, the element of surprise is gone. 

That's one of the things I loved about all of those shows at the end of the tour. 

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On 17/04/2017 at 6:56 PM, thecommish said:

Just had a chance to sit down and listen to the download and you can tell this one isn't turned around in a couple of weeks.  It's it mixed very clean and being able to pick out the individual instruments and how they blend together is something to behold...

That was the thing that first stood out for me. The sound quality on this one is heads and shoulders above any of the other Nugs releases; even Buffalo 2009, which in itself was a step forward in sound quality. Hopefully this sets the standard for those shows that follow. I'm not sure how anyone could prefer a bootleg release to this. I'd go as far to say that the quality is on par, if not better, than the Live in NYC official release.

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12 hours ago, SoulBoogieAlex said:

I'm surprised you don't hear the similarity between Boogie Chillun and La Grange. At the time the publisher of Boogie Chillun felt confident enough to file suit against ZZ Top only to find the claim invalid because the copyright had expired. ZZ Top still settled out of court and the claim contributed directly to changes in copyright law. Though admittedly, it does very much depend on the version you're listening to since the original version John Lee Hooker recorded varies from later versions he did with the likes of Canned Heat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogie_Chillen'#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEnglish200752.E2.80.9353-55

http://schleimerlaw.com/ELF298.htm

Bo's case is more complex since he sold his rights early on in his career but the influence of his beat is widely recognised

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/arts/pioneer-of-a-beat-is-still-riffing-for-his-due.html

I haven't heared La Grange. I was talking about Boogie Chillun and Reason to Believe, and the fact that the original version of Boogie Chillun didn't feature the riff in question. By 2008 Springsteen could have heard that riff in a thousand songs so unless he's asked I guess we'll never know where he picked it up. I do agree to an extent though; I imagine if an artist used say Clapton's famous Layla riff as part of a song, I don't think it would be long before the lawyers started calling.

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3 hours ago, bobfan1976 said:

That was the thing that first stood out for me. The sound quality on this one is heads and shoulders above any of the other Nugs releases; even Buffalo 2009, which in itself was a step forward in sound quality. Hopefully this sets the standard for those shows that follow. I'm not sure how anyone could prefer a bootleg release to this. I'd go as far to say that the quality is on par, if not better, than the Live in NYC official release.

This. It really is excellent. Good dynamics and separation. This is a fine addition to the series.  No one should be complaining about this one. Yes, there are some musical hiccups, but adds to the charm. Love this show. 

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