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9 minutes ago, BobbyJames said:

 is it just an educated guess based on a pattern?

Yes.

Were there not 2 Darkness shows in the year of Houston 1978? And 2 River shows in the year of Tempe 1980? (Audio of the songs not on the video).

So it is all speculation.

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17 hours ago, Lampi said:

Yes.

Were there not 2 Darkness shows in the year of Houston 1978? And 2 River shows in the year of Tempe 1980? (Audio of the songs not on the video).

So it is all speculation.

Houston '78 and Tempe '80 are "special" releases (we already have them and tempe has not been "remastered" like MSG 2000)

btw it's still sad we don't get a pro shot of the full Tempe show (maybe someone got the reason???)

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33 minutes ago, mxschrtt said:

 

btw it's still sad we don't get a pro shot of the full Tempe show (maybe someone got the reason???)

Jon Landau destroyed the video's of the 10 songs not on the DVD, it seems.

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3 minutes ago, Lampi said:

Jon Landau destroyed the video's of the 10 songs not on the DVD, it seems.

Just like the cut off Garden 2000 or LA 1992... it "sounds" so much different..

i mean, from MSG 2000, you can't release "The RIver / American Skin / Youngstown" deleting "Promised Land" or put " If I Should Fall Behind" just after Ramrod thanks to a "terrific" fade.. it's kinda weird also to have "Lost in the Flood" after Darkness..

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5 hours ago, mxschrtt said:

btw it's still sad we don't get a pro shot of the full Tempe show (maybe someone got the reason???)

They weren't filmed for some reason.

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Reason mentioned was: Too dark (most of the missing songs are ballads with dim lightning on stage). However it is not sure this really was the reason.

 

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:05 AM, Born To Walk said:

They weren't filmed for some reason.

 

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:23 AM, Lampi said:

Reason mentioned was: Too dark (most of the missing songs are ballads with dim lightning on stage). However it is not sure this really was the reason.

 

I think the official line was that these songs weren't filmed (or they didn't have footage). My gut feel is it is more complex than that. The finished product as presented has some clues IMO.

The first minute or so of Drive All Night is a single view from a single camera. It stands out for the lack of edits to other cameras / angles which are prevalent throughout the movie (and indeed later in that same song). My suspicion is that for that portion of that song, this was the only footage available. So this may have been the issue with some or all of the missing songs... footage from just one camera as opposed to multiple angles, creating a less dynamic view that was an obvious contrast to the multi angled footage elsewhere.

The other element is the lighting factor. There are passages in some of the quiet songs in the final product where all you see are indistinct red blobs on the stage. Given many of the missing songs are quiet ones, perhaps a combination of single shot footage only being available and that footage being effectively long passages of indistinct red blobs in the dark led to a decision not to use it in the final film.

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Good explanation!

The dark does not quite explain the missing of Candy's Room and The Ties That Bind.

It was also speculated at some moments-maybe- the film tape had to be changed; this would explain why at some moments there seems to be only a single camera. Maybe during some missing songs there was not one single camera in action. If so,  maybe it was a good decision to change tape during the quiet songs (if that was indeed what happened; as said it was all speculation at the time of release of the River box).

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17 hours ago, Lampi said:

Good explanation!

The dark does not quite explain the missing of Candy's Room and The Ties That Bind.

It was also speculated at some moments-maybe- the film tape had to be changed; this would explain why at some moments there seems to be only a single camera. Maybe during some missing songs there was not one single camera in action. If so,  maybe it was a good decision to change tape during the quiet songs (if that was indeed what happened; as said it was all speculation at the time of release of the River box).

Agreed, there may well be gaps with no footage at all so they decided to drop those particular songs. A few seconds here or there probably could've been covered, but if, for arguments sake, 30 seconds of a song had absolutely no footage available that would probably have been deemed as too much by Thom Zimny and hence consigned the whole song to the scrap pile.

With regard to the two up tempo songs, missing footage or single camera footage could still account for those. Imagine, for example, if the only footage available of a dynamic song like Candy's Room was just the close up on Bruce that features on The River. It would visually jar in my opinion. Or, if the only footage is the front-on longer distance camera shot from the start of Drive All Night but the song involves Bruce moving around the stage... Bruce disappearing off screen to take a guitar solo but the only footage is the microphone stand centre stage would just look ridiculous.

This is all my own speculation BTW, mainly bought on by me finding it hard to believe that they would simply switch off all cameras and not record 10 selected songs. It seems more plausible that the missing songs involved gaps in footage, extended segments with limited camera footage options or extended portions of poorly lit footage that Thom and Bruce deemed too visually inferior to use.

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53 minutes ago, Bosstralian said:

This is all my own speculation BTW, mainly bought on by me finding it hard to believe that they would simply switch off all cameras and not record 10 selected songs.

That is indeed hard to believe and also almost impossible with many if not most songs following each other almost immediately without a break, or only a few seconds break.

It was also said filming the show was for some promotional clips, instead of a release as a concert video. Just like the Phoenix 1978 clips then; even if there is serious doubt all 5 Phoenix clips are from the actual show and not from the soundcheck instead.

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I'm sure they did confirm at the time that they used all the footage they had.

Mind you, it's hard enough finding time to watch 2hr 40m, another hour would be just about impossible.

 

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7 hours ago, Born To Walk said:

I

Mind you, it's hard enough finding time to watch 2hr 40m, another hour would be just about impossible.

Easy.

Turn on the TV and the DVD or Blue Ray player.

Put the DVD or the Blue Ray in the player.

Get yourself a comfort chair as approved by The Spanish Inquisition.

Turn off the doorbell and all telephones.

Put a sign to the door: 'I am watching Bruce Springsteen And The E Street Band. Do not disturb for the next 3 hours except to bring beer and popcorn.'

Than press 'Play'.

Enjoy!

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14 minutes ago, Paolo's Circus Story said:

I really didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition reference to pop up in this thread. 

Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition reference

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On 11/15/2019 at 1:39 AM, Bosstralian said:

Agreed, there may well be gaps with no footage at all so they decided to drop those particular songs. A few seconds here or there probably could've been covered, but if, for arguments sake, 30 seconds of a song had absolutely no footage available that would probably have been deemed as too much by Thom Zimny and hence consigned the whole song to the scrap pile.

With regard to the two up tempo songs, missing footage or single camera footage could still account for those. Imagine, for example, if the only footage available of a dynamic song like Candy's Room was just the close up on Bruce that features on The River. It would visually jar in my opinion. Or, if the only footage is the front-on longer distance camera shot from the start of Drive All Night but the song involves Bruce moving around the stage... Bruce disappearing off screen to take a guitar solo but the only footage is the microphone stand centre stage would just look ridiculous.

This is all my own speculation BTW, mainly bought on by me finding it hard to believe that they would simply switch off all cameras and not record 10 selected songs. It seems more plausible that the missing songs involved gaps in footage, extended segments with limited camera footage options or extended portions of poorly lit footage that Thom and Bruce deemed too visually inferior to use.

Personally, if they needed a full filmed show, they should have release largo 80, and release properly the complete HD audio recording of tempe for the archive collection!!

The maryland show has been filmed entirely (just few days after Tempe) and the shot is very similar for all the common songs 

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56 minutes ago, mxschrtt said:

Personally, if they needed a full filmed show, they should have release largo 80, and release properly the complete HD audio recording of tempe for the archive collection!!

The maryland show has been filmed entirely (just few days after Tempe) and the shot is very similar for all the common songs 

Largo 1978 and 1980 were not filmed but shown on a sort of big cinema screen above the stage. The sound for the 1980 show came from microphones hanging from the ceiling thanks to employees of the venue. Not really a professionally filmed show (as you can see from the quality of both shows). The shot is also not similar to Tempe (and other official live videos), as you see mostly Bruce, Clarence and Steve.

Finally, as both shows are bootlegs after all, it is not sure they are indeed in the vaults of Bruce Inc.

This all said, both shows are fantastic and in no way they have become redundant because of release of Tempe 1980 and Houston 1978. Essential for every Springsteen fan. 

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:47 PM, Lampi said:

Largo 1978 and 1980 were not filmed but shown on a sort of big cinema screen above the stage. The sound for the 1980 show came from microphones hanging from the ceiling thanks to employees of the venue. Not really a professionally filmed show (as you can see from the quality of both shows). The shot is also not similar to Tempe (and other official live videos), as you see mostly Bruce, Clarence and Steve.

Finally, as both shows are bootlegs after all, it is not sure they are indeed in the vaults of Bruce Inc.

This all said, both shows are fantastic and in no way they have become redundant because of release of Tempe 1980 and Houston 1978. Essential for every Springsteen fan. 

 

I know it, but for example, no one would refuse to have one of the (first) seven 2000 garden show (especially june 22) 'cause they're not the same quality of the last three one

Btw maybe theses films get more the verve of each springsteen tour!

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On 11/20/2019 at 8:47 PM, Lampi said:

Largo 1978 and 1980 were not filmed but shown on a sort of big cinema screen above the stage. The sound for the 1980 show came from microphones hanging from the ceiling thanks to employees of the venue. Not really a professionally filmed show (as you can see from the quality of both shows). The shot is also not similar to Tempe (and other official live videos), as you see mostly Bruce, Clarence and Steve.

Finally, as both shows are bootlegs after all, it is not sure they are indeed in the vaults of Bruce Inc.

This all said, both shows are fantastic and in no way they have become redundant because of release of Tempe 1980 and Houston 1978. Essential for every Springsteen fan. 

 

In the UK the BBC showed parts of the Largo 1978 show in the 1987 documentary 'Glory Days'.The clip of 'Jungleland' was a little longer than on the incomplete bootleg so there's a fair chance the whole show is available in good quality.

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5 hours ago, Paolo's Circus Story said:

I need a great live version of "Frankie" asap. 

The false start in the version from Horsens 2016 really stops that one from being essential, and it's a similar story for Uncasville #2 and its audio issues. 

Probably Fenway night 2 or Vernon Downs.

Gothenberg Night 2 as well (Though for other reasons)

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I'd love to see a full release of December 7 2010. The carousel house show. We only have like 5 songs from it available.

Cut it down to the best of each performed, and throw in a little of the soundcheck as well.

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1.  The Largo 1978 video is much better than Largo 1980: better tour, better performance, better quality (at least the ones I have).  Largo 78 also much better than Houston 78, and should have been included in the Darkness box.

2.  The best versions of Frankie come from the 1976 spring tour.  The Rochester show was incredible, and Frankie was one of many highlights.  Probably the best captured version is from the Apr. 4 show at Cleveland's Allen Theatre, of which some cleaner versions have more recently become available.  This version, along with Rendezvous, Don't Look Back, Talk to Me, Fire, Hearts of Stone, The Way and Something in the Night would have made Bruce's '77 album (his fifth) a critically and commercially successful follow up to BtR in '75 and the record-breaking 3-LP Live at the Bottom Line that he'd released in Sept. '76 . . . at least in my (and maybe Mike Appel's) alternative universe.

The later Frankie iterations from the BitUSA era and 2016 tour are very nice too, but well below the original version.

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10 hours ago, Outside Looking In said:

1.  The Largo 1978 video is much better than Largo 1980: better tour, better performance, better quality (at least the ones I have).  Largo 78 also much better than Houston 78, and should have been included in the Darkness box.

 

Yes, the show is better but they were never gonna release a full show were you cant see Max until the very last song played.

And although the video quality of Largo 1978 is better than the one  from 1980, the camerawork on the latter is far superior.

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1 hour ago, DennisC said:

Yes, the show is better but they were never gonna release a full show were you cant see Max until the very last song played.

This.

And why the competitief element? Houston and Largo both have their merits and a different setlist; different legs of the tour; different feeling-Sumner show and a little more dark December show; making them additioneel to each other. Enjoy both.

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