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9 minutes ago, lilbud said:

Yeah, they've been down since yesterday or the day before for me. The site is back up, but there hasn't been any new posts since

Yeah I noticed that to 

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The River tour was my first show, Fall of 1980 in the dump that jumps. I was 12 years old and just purchased my first Van Halen records. My Mom had a fight with her boyfriend. So off I went with her. 

Seriously, don't open the spoiler if you want to be surprised on Friday.  

I'm sad.  Also, had a car crash today on my way home... slid down an icy road, straight into the back of a parked car.  So all round not very pleasing day.

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8 hours ago, Nick21 said:

Listening to the latest None But The Brave podcast, Flynn's insider snippets confirm pretty much what we suspected regarding several shows from 1975-1988.

Even more worryingly, in looking ahead to next week's episode (covering 1992-present), his teaser about the Rising shows sounded very, very bleak.

That we've not even had a remixed Barcelona or anything from East Rutherford/Boston makes me suspect - and Flynn may confirm this - that they were also stored on the same format as the rest of the tour. 

It still begs the question: how did Helsinki, of all the shows, survive?!

 

Maybe some of the 'sound' experts on here can help.

What I dont understand about the Rising shows is that there is more than one decent sounding bootleg out there particularly from fall 2002. Can they not use that source to work their magic from?

Or does it not work like that?

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21 minutes ago, Sean McNeill said:

Maybe some of the 'sound' experts on here can help.

What I dont understand about the Rising shows is that there is more than one decent sounding bootleg out there particularly from fall 2002. Can they not use that source to work their magic from?

Or does it not work like that?

The podcast touched on this briefly. They could, but most bootlegs are widely circulated, and not many people are going to buy a bootleg that they can find for free online. 

No matter how much they improve it, there really isn't a point in them taking a bootleg and selling it.

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14 minutes ago, Born To Walk said:

The whole point of the series is to give us access to what they have, not to polish up bootlegs for us.

OK then Mr NUGS!

Believe it or not I fully understand that. I was talking in the context of the Rising shows.

Plus your not going to tell me that the folks out there who already had the 'legendary radio broadcasts from '78 didn't replace them with official releases. I see people all the time on this very forum saying 'another bootleg for the bin' when a show is released.

I must be in the minority cos when I like a show I'll buy it. Bootleg or not it's generally better quality.

I have a great quality bootleg of London '02, if it was used as a source to remaster & release I'd sure as hell buy it for £10.

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12 minutes ago, Sean McNeill said:

I have a great quality bootleg of London '02, if it was used as a source to remaster & release I'd sure as hell buy it for £10.

They may be able to improve the sound quality of the Crystal Cat tape a small amount, but it’s still going to be and sound like an audience tape.

The one avenue they could go down - and again this is never going to be the same as mixing from multitrack - is getting all the IEM/ALD tapes from the übers. 

IEM/ALD feeds of virtually all of the USA shows in 1999/2000/2002 (and beyond) exist among collectors (confirmed by a reliable user on BTX a few years back). The problem is these tend to be mono, aren’t always mixed perfectly (particularly depending on whose IEM it is) and are prone to dropouts and static. 

Hoserama’s St Louis 2008 matrix of all multiple sources (eight from memory) sounded good... but the NUGS blows it out of the park.

At the current rate (one show per tour released per year) they’ll be able to get by for nearly another decade even with the minimal multitracks they have from 1975 to 1988. 

Given that they’ve not dipped into the Chas Gerber two-track tapes from 1977 for four years, I certainly don’t expect a change of approach in regards to the Rising tour any time soon.

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1 hour ago, Born To Walk said:

The whole point of the series is to give us access to what they have, not to polish up bootlegs for us.

Yes but they use bootleg sources (eg audience tape or soundboard) if there's a section of a song missing on the multi-track masters

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10 hours ago, Cameron J. McMenemy said:

Yes but they use bootleg sources (eg audience tape or soundboard) if there's a section of a song missing on the multi-track masters

it was the case for London 81 but it's rare. I don't think they would do this if they missed few songs of the show

But about this 2002 european shows: they filmed professionally Barcelona 02, and, the band actually WORKED a lot to prepare these shows (you can clearly see they played some songs from Barcelona 02, paris 02, Bologna 02 a way they clearly never used to played like For You and My hometown on piano, but also Roy's contribution in She's the One that is upgrade a lot). I don't know either if they have ''special'' instruments but the sound itself (on bootleg) is totally ''different''

So I think for all those reasons, I don't consider that when they played those shows, they did it like they played most of the 75 european shows. They intended to play them to have materials of it and even if they are not multitrack, they can surely have decent document but not prioritize them especially 

I've never read something like this but I was just wondering if Bruce's sometimes listened to some recording of his shows during the tour to upgrade some songs ?

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31 minutes ago, mxschrtt said:

it was the case for London 81 but it's rare. I don't think they would do this if they missed few songs of the show

Agreed. The patches so far represent a couple of minutes out of lengthy shows: Wembley 1981 and Meadowlands 1993 - audience - and NYC 1979 and 2009 - from a two-track SBD source. (I have a feeling I’m missing one).

To my ears Wembley 1981 is the most jarring but it’s hardly a disaster. The patch in Bus Stop at Meadowlands 1993 is barely noticeable as (a) it’s a good audience tape and (b) Bruce is playing solo acoustic. 

I’m intrigued to see what Flynn says on the next podcast - my hunch is that the Vote For Change shows were possibly recorded onto this problematic format, too, explaining why none of those have been released yet. 

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18 hours ago, Born To Walk said:

The whole point of the series is to give us access to what they have, not to polish up bootlegs for us.

Actually part of the remit of the Archive series is to ‘reclaim’ recordings of famous boots by issuing superior quality recordings; thus making the boots redundant. More often than not they achieve this.

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On 3/4/2021 at 1:25 PM, Sean McNeill said:

It still begs the question: how did Helsinki, of all the shows, survive?!

Yes, THAT is a great question!! 

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5 hours ago, fadeaway said:

Yes, THAT is a great question!! 

I’ve always thought Helsinki was chosen as the process was risky and the recording could become lost forever - i.e. they didn’t mind if they lost Helsinki as it was a ‘standard’ show, and not one of the more renowned ones like Shea.
 

In this case, Helsinki worked and so they released it - but maybe the process was too difficult or risky to justify it for other shows, I don’t know in all honesty. Seems weird that recordings can’t just be accessed - surely the old technology that justified it in the first place still exists somewhere?

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Just now, BobbyJames said:

I’ve always thought Helsinki was chosen as the process was risky and the recording could become lost forever - i.e. they didn’t mind if they lost Helsinki as it was a ‘standard’ show, and not one of the more renowned ones like Shea.
 

In this case, Helsinki worked and so they released it - but maybe the process was too difficult or risky to justify it for other shows, I don’t know in all honesty. Seems weird that recordings can’t just be accessed - surely the old technology that justified it in the first place still exists somewhere?

I personally think that Helsinki didn't sell well enough to justify the work needed for another release.

And yes, the old tech still exists and is out there. But that's the thing "old tech", the problem was that the rest of tech has moved on to newer formats and hardware, and that old format isn't compatible with the newer tech without some legwork first to convert the show to the newer formats, THEN they have to mix and master like any other show.

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12 hours ago, lilbud said:

I personally think that Helsinki didn't sell well enough to justify the work needed for another release

I fear that you’re right. Same for the 1977 two-tracks.

*But* if they managed to put out, say, Shea #2, I have no doubt that it would sell incredibly well. 

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12 hours ago, lilbud said:

I personally think that Helsinki didn't sell well enough to justify the work needed for another release.

And yes, the old tech still exists and is out there. But that's the thing "old tech", the problem was that the rest of tech has moved on to newer formats and hardware, and that old format isn't compatible with the newer tech without some legwork first to convert the show to the newer formats, THEN they have to mix and master like any other show.

It's a thought. However if they are using the release of some random Summer 2003 release as a successful commercial gauge against say the late 2002 European run or the Giants Stadium shows or even Shea I'd say that's naive at best.

The must be aware of the clamour for at least one notable Rising show.

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15 hours ago, BobbyJames said:

I’ve always thought Helsinki was chosen as the process was risky and the recording could become lost forever - i.e. they didn’t mind if they lost Helsinki as it was a ‘standard’ show, and not one of the more renowned ones like Shea.

This theory came up before and was denied [on this forum, maybe even in this topic]. They did NOT choose Helsinki just because it was a standard show and no problem if it would be lost.

BTW Helsinki is, as a solid show with a rather standard setlist, a better representation of the Rising Tour than let's say the Shea shows, with all the rarities and 'special guests'.

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At the time Helsinki was released, we had thought that the Rising shows were irretrievable.  But the reception of the Nugs Helsinki show was somewhere between “meh” and lukewarm (at best).

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7 hours ago, Lampi said:

This theory came up before and was denied [on this forum, maybe even in this topic]. They did NOT choose Helsinki just because it was a standard show and no problem if it would be lost.

BTW Helsinki is, as a solid show with a rather standard setlist, a better representation of the Rising Tour than let's say the Shea shows, with all the rarities and 'special guests'.

I think that was actually my theory a while back.

 

10 hours ago, Sean McNeill said:

It's a thought. However if they are using the release of some random Summer 2003 release as a successful commercial gauge against say the late 2002 European run or the Giants Stadium shows or even Shea I'd say that's naive at best.

The must be aware of the clamour for at least one notable Rising show.

I mean, they probably know there is a part of the fanbase really wanting another rising show, but I think they also have to weigh the amount of work needed and see if they feel the payoff will be worth it.

I mean, money talks and bullshit walks. They may not feel like they're earn enough back to justify the work.

I feel like if we were to get another rising show, it would be a retail release of a pro shot video and mixed audio. Not everyone knows/follows the archive series as well as we do here. And a retail release would possibly be seen by more than just us.

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7 minutes ago, lilbud said:

I think that was actually my theory a while back.

What I was talking about was some years ago, with a more or less official denial the Helsinki show was chosen just because it was a sort of standard show with no problem if it would get lost.

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