Tom-Joad

Songs you like but make you feel uncomfortable

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Nothing.

It just made me feel a certain way when I was a kid and it would be a long-winded and boring story to tell.

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On 5/25/2019 at 1:19 PM, Jerseyfornia said:

Young Girl, Girl You'll Be A Woman Soon, Down In The Boondocks, Having My Baby.

i van sing along to the first 3 and yes you are right but what's the 4th song?

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I don't think there's any need to feel uncomfortable about the song above. One can take it further if they wish but ..

Oh, oh, oh, baby, don't you know I'm human
Have thoughts like any other one
Sometimes I find myself alone and regretting
Some foolish thing, some little simple thing I've done

… physical/dire mental abuse isn't what is meant, going by the last line. imho

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On 5/25/2019 at 1:58 AM, Tom-Joad said:

How do you know she doesn’t want to say no? All you have is the protagonist’s point of view. The very idea that she’s saying no but her body is (apparently) saying something else is worrisome enough. If she is saying no, she is saying no. There’s nothing puritanical about consent. You may choose to believe that the character who’s saying no (male or female) is feeling conflicted and that point of view would probably make for a better song. But that’s not what Fire is about. 

I disagree with everything you've said in that post.  It's possible that females are more likely to 'get' the song.
As for "the protagonist's point of view", I'll just leave this here.

 

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Many songs by The Cramps, including song titles (like: What's Inside A Girl, Can Your Pussy Do The Dog, Like A Bad Girl Should) and lyrics, their stage act and a sleeve like the one posted below, can be considered as sexist, especially in the Me Too age.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable myself but I guess that could be different for others.

R-1192460-1472574878-5584.jpeg.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Lampi said:

Many songs by The Cramps, including song titles (like: What's Inside A Girl, Can Your Pussy Do The Dog, Like A Bad Girl Should) and lyrics, their stage act and a sleeve like the one posted below, can be considered as sexist, especially in the Me Too age.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable myself but I guess that could be different for others.

R-1192460-1472574878-5584.jpeg.jpg

i think i fainted 

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55 minutes ago, Rizla said:

I disagree with everything you've said in that post.  It's possible that females are more likely to 'get' the song.
As for "the protagonist's point of view", I'll just leave this here.

 

If you disagree with everything I said there and you indeed think that consent is just a puritanical notion, then I can certainly see why we disagree on this.

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26 minutes ago, Lampi said:

Many songs by The Cramps, including song titles (like: What's Inside A Girl, Can Your Pussy Do The Dog, Like A Bad Girl Should) and lyrics, their stage act, can be considered as sexist, especially in the Me Too age.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable myself but I guess that could be different for others.

R-1192460-1472574878-5584.jpeg.jpg

I got to see them live and it’s easily in my top5 shows I’ve seen. No only do I think they’re songs aren’t sexist, I think they’re the very opposite of it. 

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Something else, which really makes me uncomfortable, even if I am not British or Irish: The 80s British band Easterhouse dedicated their single 'Inspiration' to Bobby Sands: 'The courage of Bobby Sands and those like him can be an inspiration to those who take up this task. They are true working class heroes'.

The back of the single has more things to say about 'British Workers', 'Imperialist Oppression' and the Labour Party as 'Traitors to the international working class'.

(So why did I buy this single way back then? No idea; probably because it was very cheap, and because I knew the name of the band from music magazines).

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3 minutes ago, Tom-Joad said:

I got to see them live and it’s easily in my top5 shows I’ve seen. No only do I think they’re songs aren’t sexist, I think they’re the very opposite of it. 

Oh yes, it seems they were a very great live band. Sadly never got to see them live. Don't get me wrong: I like their music.:)

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10 minutes ago, Lampi said:

Something else, which really makes me uncomfortable, even if I am not British or Irish: The 80s British band Easterhouse dedicated their single 'Inspiration' to Bobby Sands: 'The courage of Bobby Sands and those like him can be an inspiration to those who take up this task. They are true working class heroes'.

The back of the single has more things to say about 'British Workers', 'Imperialist Oppression' and the Labour Party as 'Traitors to the international working class'.

(So why did I buy this single way back then? No idea; probably because it was very cheap, and because I knew the name of the band from music magazines).

oh dear, i wouldn't have liked that 

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4 hours ago, Tom-Joad said:

If you disagree with everything I said there and you indeed think that consent is just a puritanical notion, then I can certainly see why we disagree on this.

Why don't you tell us what you think 'Fire' is about, then?

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55 minutes ago, Rizla said:

Why don't you tell us what you think 'Fire' is about, then?

It’s about a horny protagonist who doesn’t take no for an answer and thinks he can second guess what the other person is saying. It’s about a protagonist who doesn’t know what consent is and thinks that when someone says no they mean yes because he feels it. It’s a one sided view of things and there isn’t one single line about how the other person really feels.

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5 hours ago, Lampi said:

Something else, which really makes me uncomfortable, even if I am not British or Irish: The 80s British band Easterhouse dedicated their single 'Inspiration' to Bobby Sands: 'The courage of Bobby Sands and those like him can be an inspiration to those who take up this task. They are true working class heroes'.

The back of the single has more things to say about 'British Workers', 'Imperialist Oppression' and the Labour Party as 'Traitors to the international working class'.

(So why did I buy this single way back then? No idea; probably because it was very cheap, and because I knew the name of the band from music magazines).

Mmmm, as someone with a few Wolfetones and Black 47 songs in my collection, mebbes I shouldn't comment..........

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In the context of "Blue Velvet" "In dreams" is disturbing........

 

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1 hour ago, Tom-Joad said:

It’s about a horny protagonist who doesn’t take no for an answer and thinks he can second guess what the other person is saying. It’s about a protagonist who doesn’t know what consent is and thinks that when someone says no they mean yes because he feels it. It’s a one sided view of things and there isn’t one single line about how the other person really feels.

Mmmmm, devil's advocating a wee bit, isn't the protagonist saying that the girl's kisses speak more eloquently than her words? 

The "language of love" so to speak?

I've known girls who were no good for me that I've gone back to because of.........well, thinking without brain.

Similarly, I've been the other one in similarly unhealthy couplings.

There's never been a question of coercion or acting contrary to the wishes of the other party, just giving in to ...... mutually desired physicality, in the face of ....... I dunno......logic or common sense.

Now, within the song the dynamics of the relationship aren't expressed, not clearly, thus.

If being charitable you could say it's expressed clumsily and in language of its time.

Uncharitably, it can be viewed much differently.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, MagicRatAFC said:

Mmmmm, devil's advocating a wee bit, isn't the protagonist saying that the girl's kisses speak more eloquently than her words? 

The "language of love" so to speak?

I've known girls who were no good for me that I've gone back to because of.........well, thinking without brain.

Similarly, I've been the other one in similarly unhealthy couplings.

There's never been a question of coercion or acting contrary to the wishes of the other party, just giving in to ...... mutually desired physicality, in the face of ....... I dunno......logic or common sense.

Now, within the song the dynamics of the relationship aren't expressed, not clearly, thus.

If being charitable you could say it's expressed clumsily and in language of its time.

Uncharitably, it can be viewed much differently.

 

 

There’s always that possibility. However, in a perfect world of consensual sex a respect for the other, the song should go:

”I’m driving in my car / I turn on the radio/ I’m pulling you close / You just say no” - End of song. No subjective reading of kisses or body language can overcome a clear and simple “no”. 

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13 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

i van sing along to the first 3 and yes you are right but what's the 4th song?

Be glad you don't know it!!

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1 hour ago, Tom-Joad said:

There’s always that possibility. However, in a perfect world of consensual sex a respect for the other, the song should go:

”I’m driving in my car / I turn on the radio/ I’m pulling you close / You just say no” - End of song. No subjective reading of kisses or body language can overcome a clear and simple “no”. 

Unquestionably. But that's what I was referring to in my penultimate sentence.

 

There's many instances of rock and roll lyrics from "them days" not withstanding ethical scrutiny today.

"Boom, boom.....out go the lights" springs immediately to mind.

Not just rock and roll, jeez " The wee cupar of Fife" glorifies domestic violence and we sang it in school.

I guess discomfort is understandable, but how much slack we cut due to historical context is in the eye, or ear, of the beholder.

 

And don't get me started on the national anthem of the UK .............

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5 hours ago, Tom-Joad said:

There’s always that possibility. However, in a perfect world of consensual sex a respect for the other, the song should go:

”I’m driving in my car / I turn on the radio/ I’m pulling you close / You just say no” - End of song. No subjective reading of kisses or body language can overcome a clear and simple “no”. 

i do see where your coming from, you have explained yourself well and its kind of hard to argue .... i mean we life in a world where no must mean no

We are not very good at saying what we acfually mean in my country 

boyfriend "you look cold, would you like my jacket?"

girl - teeth chattering ' no, im ok thanks"

waits for boyfriend to offer again.....world >.'

boygriend has already forgotten all about it

but 

he did write it for the pointer sisters ? - so is the narrator a woman and not a man ?

(does this make it just as bad ?)

its not one of my favourite songs

the only time i think about it is when its brought up in this kind of discussion 

i don't really take the song all that seriously 

and we are living in a way more diffetent world nowdays 

 

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On 5/26/2019 at 1:21 PM, Lampi said:

Something else, which really makes me uncomfortable, even if I am not British or Irish: The 80s British band Easterhouse dedicated their single 'Inspiration' to Bobby Sands: 'The courage of Bobby Sands and those like him can be an inspiration to those who take up this task. They are true working class heroes'.

The back of the single has more things to say about 'British Workers', 'Imperialist Oppression' and the Labour Party as 'Traitors to the international working class'.

(So why did I buy this single way back then? No idea; probably because it was very cheap, and because I knew the name of the band from music magazines).

Fair points, well made.

I've completely gone off Morello after he declared his admiration for Bobby Sands (while working for Bruce, as it happens).  We discussed it briefly in the Circuit but nobody seemed bothered.  It still p****s me off, and I can't listen to the Bruce songs with him on it.

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