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3 hours ago, Dr. Zoom said:

Ever noticed that there are always American flags in a European stadium crowd?

But there was also a big American flag onstage during the B.U.S.A. Tour (as shown in the photo in the booklet from Live 1975/85). Bruce said something in an interview in mid-80s like 'that flag is also my flag' [i.e. it does belong to every American and not only to those who claim it].

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For me a masterpiece is an album where all the songs are great and that you don't get tired of.

BUSA is perfectly sequenced. It is perfect as it is.

There’s always the personal element which is hard to define or even explain sometimes. For me to use the horrible masterpiece term I need to feel a certain way about an album and for it to tick a

11 minutes ago, 100yrsOld said:

Put this way it sounds really bad

That was not my intention.

It is more when people on this board say: BUSA would have been a better album with all these great outtakes (mainly from Tracks Disc 3), why are those not on it? Because of the 'deal' with Columbia (well 'deal' indeed sounds bad:D, like Bruce selling his soul to Columbia or something).

But would BUSA really be better with This Hard Land, Sugarland, Shut Out The Light, Man At The Top instead of Cover Me,  Darlington County, Working On The Highway and I'm Going Down? No.

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3 minutes ago, Lampi said:

But there were also a big American flag onstage during the B.U.S.A. Tour (as shown in the photo in the booklet from Live 1975/85). Bruce said something in an interview in mid-80s like 'that flag is also my flag' [i.e. it does belong to every American and not only to those who claim it].

Exactly.

Furthermore we 'european' fans live the flag as a tribute to Bruce and to  the country he deeply loves. That is with all the things that don't go as they should.

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5 hours ago, Dr. Zoom said:

We Take Of Our Own was misunderstood almost immediately, as a pro-American patriotic song,

Yes, but that one to me has a double meaning.  

The government should (but didn’t, as much of the lyrics tell us) take care of its people.  

I always took it to mean that when the government doesn’t, the people do come together to take care of our own.  Which is historically what happens in this country.  

So in that way, it is “pro American.” 

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3 hours ago, Lampi said:

But would BUSA really be better with This Hard Land, Sugarland, Shut Out The Light, Man At The Top instead of Cover Me,  Darlington County, Working On The Highway and I'm Going Down? No.

Yup, if you change one or two of the songs mentioned. Probably change the order of the tracks as well.

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7 hours ago, Declansk said:

For some reason many people only seem to hear the chorus and ignore the verses. It’s not a hard song to understand at all. 

if one wasn't sure the video certainly spells it out loud and clear - and my 16 year old self knew exactly what it ment

i love me a really angry BITUSA 

but you know when he sings it live its really hard not to break into a huge smile and start fist pumping with the masses

next time i might just break out my American flag 

the flag also looks so beautiful in the stadium flying up there besides ours

 

its a great great song and i need to give it the love it deserves

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55 minutes ago, rosiejaneymary said:

Yes, but that one to me has a double meaning.  

The government should (but didn’t, as much of the lyrics tell us) take care of its people.  

I always took it to mean that when the government doesn’t, the people do come together to take care of our own.  Which is historically what happens in this country.  

So in that way, it is “pro American.” 

that was certainly a song that got me thinking because it can so easierly be misconstrued as a patriotic antham

i think he was also trying to remind us to step up and start taking care of our own (but certainly not in an isolationist or protective fashion) 

i think WTCOOO in another time and place could have been as big as BITUSA 

i would never describe Bruce as anti American and i do get upset when he is perceived/ made to look that way by certain elements when if people did a tiny bit of research/ googerling they would see his long history of supporting war veterns - like at the concert for value when he sung fortunate son 

its perfectly ok to not agree with the current politics of the government of the day and still love your country

it happens to all of us on a regular basis in a democracy no matter what one's politics are 

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51 minutes ago, Lampi said:

BUSA is perfectly sequenced. It is perfect as it is.

I mean if adding some outtakes and removing the least good album tracks. I don't think the album is a masterpiece as in that all the songs are great. The sequencing is indeed good though, but as a whole song quality-wise the album could be better. 

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4 hours ago, Lampi said:

But there was also a big American flag onstage during the B.U.S.A. Tour (as shown in the photo in the booklet from Live 1975/85). Bruce said something in an interview in mid-80s like 'that flag is also my flag' [i.e. it does belong to every American and not only to those who claim it].

Sure, but I was referring to the subsequent tours; even at my first show in '88 I thought it a bit odd, guys with headbands and American flags,  in Oslo. This is just my personal perception of this, I'm not saying there should have been Norwegian flags instead. To me the American flag at Bruce concerts after 1985 - especially not in America (that woukd make sense) - seemed a bit misplaced, to me. Reducing Bruce to an American thing, when he was obviously more universal before and after 1984-85 seems a bit wrong (again, to me). Not to take anything away from his uh Americanness, but there was and is so much more in his music that is so universal, that it cannot be tied completely to one country or nation. 

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Zoom said:

Sure, but I was referring to the subsequent tours; even at my first show in '88 I thought it a bit odd, guys with headbands and American flags,  in Oslo. This is just my personal perception of this, I'm not saying there should have been Norwegian flags instead. To me the American flag at Bruce concerts after 1985 - especially not in America (that woukd make sense) - seemed a bit misplaced, to me. Reducing Bruce to an American thing, when he was obviously more universal before and after 1984-85 seems a bit wrong (again, to me). Not to take anything away from his uh Americanness, but there was and is so much more in his music that is so universal, that it cannot be tied completely to one country or nation. 

i saw that in Auckland too

it felt outdated and cliched (sorry can't spell that) rather than a genuine love of America (as in if i had been decked out in the stars and stripes :lol:

the head band thing especially 

it was like people were taking the piss 

 

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7 minutes ago, Daisey Jeep said:

i saw that in Auckland too

it felt outdated and cliched (sorry can't spell that) rather than a genuine love of America (as in if i had been decked out in the stars and stripes :lol:

the head band thing especially 

it was like people were taking the piss 

 

Exactly, what I was trying to say - thank you.

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2 hours ago, rosiejaneymary said:

Yes, but that one to me has a double meaning.  

The government should (but didn’t, as much of the lyrics tell us) take care of its people.  

I always took it to mean that when the government doesn’t, the people do come together to take care of our own.  Which is historically what happens in this country.  

So in that way, it is “pro American.” 

The people do a much better job of taking of the people than the government does. I don’t look at that song as pro or anti American as much as it is pro-humanity.

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19 minutes ago, Daisey Jeep said:

i saw that in Auckland too

it felt outdated and cliched (sorry can't spell that) rather than a genuine love of America (as in if i had been decked out in the stars and stripes :lol:

the head band thing especially 

it was like people were taking the piss 

 

My impression is that you're overthinking all this flag thing.
Why does it have to be a genuine love for America when it can just be a genuine welcome to your favorite musician?
True, many so called fans have completely misunderstood his songs, but why should  this bother or affect US?

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10 hours ago, BobbyJames said:

Am I the only one who thinks this album would be 1000 time better had Nico not been on the album? Not to sound overly harsh but I just don’t like her voice and feel Lou Reed could have done a better job singing on her tracks 

I don't think so... Maybe Lou Reed could have sung Femme Fatale and I'll Be Your Mirror, but not All Tomorrow's Parties (at least not to the same effect). And Sunday Morning was written to be sung by Nico; and she indeed sang lead vocals at early live performances of the song, but Lou Reed sang the lead vocals on the studio version. So difficult to say.

 

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Forgive the heavy metal bias, but the following are masterpiece albums:

Rust in peace, Megadeth

Master of puppets, Metallica

Seventh son, iron maiden

Led Zeppelin IV

These are all old albums, none of the bands have done anything as good since then (led zep have not had much chance really), does that mean they can't? Possibly. Might they be able to? Certainly. Dystopia for Megadeth, book of souls for maiden are very close to masterpieces. 

Relating this to Bruce, btr is a masterpiece. Is Western stars also a masterpiece? Just because it is so late in his career doesn't mean it can't be. I would say it is, based on songwriting, production and performance.

Is bitusa also a masterpiece? Possibly not. But it is damn good fun.

 

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1 hour ago, 100yrsOld said:

My impression is that you're overthinking all this flag thing.
Why does it have to be a genuine love for America when it can just be a genuine welcome to your favorite musician?
True, many so called fans have completely misunderstood his songs, but why should  this bother or affect US?
 

i possibly  over think alot of things about America :lol:

but because i have genuine love and respect for her

i see the flag flying on random buildings and feel genuine love in my heart

 however what you say makes sence about welcoming Bruce - 

but i still put in the same category as signs that say 'can i be Courtney Cox '

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4 hours ago, Jertucky said:

The people do a much better job of taking of the people than the government does. I don’t look at that song as pro or anti American as much as it is pro-humanity.

Absolutely.  No question. 

I only said ‘pro American’ as I was responding to the claim that it wasn’t, and explained why I felt it was; and the song itself was written by an American about the events surrounding hurricane Katrina.  

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7 hours ago, Lampi said:

I don't think so... Maybe Lou Reed could have sung Femme Fatale and I'll Be Your Mirror, but not All Tomorrow's Parties (at least not to the same effect). And Sunday Morning was written to be sung by Nico; and she indeed sang lead vocals at early live performances of the song, but Lou Reed sang the lead vocals on the studio version. So difficult to say.

 

Yeah you’re right about All tomorrow’s Parties - but I still think I’d rather hear Lou Reed on the rest singing in his ‘Sunday Morning’ voice!

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5 hours ago, rosiejaneymary said:

Absolutely.  No question. 

I only said ‘pro American’ as I was responding to the claim that it wasn’t, and explained why I felt it was; and the song itself was written by an American about the events surrounding hurricane Katrina.  

Exactly, I apologise for not nuancing what I meant by "pro-American", and just to be clear: my view on American flags was not intended as America-bashing, I just found (and find) it a bit odd that Bruce is considered so ultra-American, based on a tiny (though hugely successful and most recognisable) part of his career.

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11 hours ago, Baseball player said:

Led Zeppelin IV

These are all old albums, none of the bands have done anything as good since then (led zep have not had much chance really)

Physical Graffiti?

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On 10/17/2019 at 1:18 PM, Promise61 said:

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

A masterpiece relative to the rest of his catalogue? Or a masterpiece compared to real masterpieces like Pet Sounds or Highway 61 or Horses or Astral Weeks etc., etc? On this basis, I would say that he doesn't have a masterpiece.

My marathon listen is over.  This is all in good fun of course, but I really did listen to all four of them. In order of masterpieces (but, as you said, beauty is in the ear ...) -

1.  Highway 61 Revisited.  I do love wordy songs.  He's a poet and he knows it.  Music is great too.

2. Pet Sounds.  For the sweeping harmonies alone (and the well-known ones we, of a certain age, can remember from when we were weenyboppers).  There are a couple of weird moments on it though :lol:

3.  Astral Weeks - just about edging it above Patti Smith because of Madame George and because his wailing reminds me of young Bruce's wailing.  You can definitely hear how Bruce was influenced by Van (and by uncle Bob too). But the wailing is on nearly every song.  Too much wailing.

4.  Horses - neigh, neigh and thrice neigh.  Sorry.  Patti seems like such a nice person as well, but I just can't like this album.

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