Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, TheBoss said:

I like the universal, human aspect of his music. The typical American ingredients I don't like so much, but you have to take the bad with the good. He's a very good song writer. I would probably had enjoyed his music more if he was an European song writer. I generally prefer British rock/pop/folk music over American. Sometimes an American arrogance or patrotism shines through in comments that he makes, like he deep down thinks that the USA despite all its faults and failures, racism, economic injustice and flawed political system is somehow superior to Europe and that his music serves the purpose of spreading "American values" to Europe and around the world.

 

52 minutes ago, Rizla said:

It seems more like the opposite to me.

You may live in Barcelona, but you can feel you’re related to Asbury Park, some place you may never go. But if a songwriter is writing well and is writing about the human condition, you’ll take them there. They’ll get there.

Us poor unfortunates living in shitty places like Barcelona :rolleyes: can be mentally transported by Bruce's music to the heaven that is the USA.

And I've been a fan of his music for years despite having no particular interest in American culture per se.

I guess I have just never seen it that way. He's American, he writes about America. I read a lot of books set in America and watch a lot of films set in America. Maybe I like the place more than I think I do! 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I mentioned about loving the blues - the same applies to Bruce. I can identify with the emotion in the music and appreciate the art of it. It moves me, although I live in a different time and space.  Even if I live thousands of kilomentres (or miles for our US fellow members) away from there and in different circumstances, one  can identify with the timeless aspect of art - comunicating emotion  or telling a story. I live in Eastern Europe where we have no sea, but I still like Old man and the sea, for example, even if I do not think it is the best thing  Hemingway ever wrote.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

29 minutes ago, whispered secret said:

 

I guess I have just never seen it that way. He's American, he writes about America. I read a lot of books set in America and watch a lot of films set in America. Maybe I like the place more than I think I do! 

I am also a  big fan of detective stories and tv shows, and let us face it, with the exception of Maigret, and Judge Dee most of the best ones come from and are set in the UK,or US or, if you like the nordic touch,  Scandinavia. I even read a Polish writer  from the Communist era, who used an English pseudonym and wrote great detective novels set in England.  I do not think his work was translated into English, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Well i loved American before i was a Springsteen fan but i love it even more since becoming a Bruce fan

But then im not a European

I am a European, or maybe not, now we are not members of the EU, British, English, I have always been interested in America long before I was a Bruce fan, and have always enjoyed the time I spent there. But I don't think I could ever live there.

I don't like anymore or less because I am a Springsteen fan.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont see this quote as being offensive to anyone outside of america. Just as I listen to U2 and connect to songs about their own back yard, or Penny Lane by the Beatles, or London Calling by the Clash. Artists sung about their experiences,  their place, their surroundings.  Their genius comes from getting an audience to connect to those themes. Whether it's a personal connection shared by the listener or stories that bring the listeners to a time and place. Hell I'm American and have no true connection to Youngstown, I didn't serve in Vietnam,  nor work in a factory,  nor have experience with life on our borders. However I connected to those stories and words because they are great stories and it brings me to those places. I think that's his point. 

To call him a white privileged elitist certainly seems over the top to me. Speaking and writing about things that you dont agree with about country and those running it has been a norm for years and years. Whether you share such opinions is a different story. His wealth comes from his work not from inherited privilege or the color of his skin. Maybe he should just shut up and sing;)

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Im not sure about Europe but if Bruce had been British i see a huge chip on his shoulder that would have completly turned me off

He has just enough Anerican sunshine to light up the darkness 

Some Brits: The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Jam, Roxy Music, Black Sabbath, Blur, Queen, The Kinks, The Clash, Oasis, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, Elvis Costello, David Bowie.

I'd say the sun shines as bright on these guys as on Bruce.

  • Like 3
  • Love Love Love! 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, THUE said:

I dont see this quote as being offensive to anyone outside of america. Just as I listen to U2 and connect to songs about their own back yard, or Penny Lane by the Beatles, or London Calling by the Clash. Artists sung about their experiences,  their place, their surroundings.  Their genius comes from getting an audience to connect to those themes. Whether it's a personal connection shared by the listener or stories that bring the listeners to a time and place. Hell I'm American and have no true connection to Youngstown, I didn't serve in Vietnam,  nor work in a factory,  nor have experience with life on our borders. However I connected to those stories and words because they are great stories and it brings me to those places. I think that's his point. 

To call him a white privileged elitist certainly seems over the top to me. Speaking and writing about things that you dont agree with about country and those running it has been a norm for years and years. Whether you share such opinions is a different story. His wealth comes from his work not from inherited privilege or the color of his skin. Maybe he should just shut up and sing;)

 

I wasn't offended by the quote and I don't think anyone else were either. The point some people were trying to make is that we like his music, but that has nothing to do with a fascination with the US. People around the world love Shakespeare's play Hamlet. That doesn't mean they give a damn about Denmark. Or that people that prefer the play "The Merchant of Venice" are particulary fond of Italy. Bruce himself has mentioned that he is an avid reader of the Russian classics. Does that have anything to do with his feelings for the country Russia?

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce, for me anyways isnt about America, its about the connection of the working class and the toils and hardship the have to go through to get away from that, I can associate Bruces older stuff very much about growing up in the UK. America I love as I country no one welcomes you more and treats you better than the working class American, we have our racist bigots here America has more but its a lot bigger, politically if I can say it America has become more of a dictatorship than a democracy

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brooks: There is a question I’ve always wanted to ask you. You’ve spent so much of your life writing about working-class men and, in particular, working-class men who were victims of deindustrialization, who used to work in the factories and mills that were closed, whether in Asbury Park or Freehold or Youngstown or throughout the Midwest. But a lot of those guys didn’t turn out to share your politics. They became Donald Trump supporters. What’s your explanation for that?

Springsteen: There’s a long history of working people being misled by a long list of demagogues, from George Wallace and Jesse Helms to fake religious leaders like Jerry Falwell to our president.

The Democrats haven’t really made the preservation of the middle and working class enough of a priority. And they’ve been stymied in bringing more change by the Republican Party. In the age of Roosevelt, Republicans represented business; Democrats represented labor. And when I was a kid, the first and only political question ever asked in my house was “Mom, what are we, Democrats or Republicans?” And she answered, “We are Democrats because they’re for the working people.” (I have a sneaking suspicion my mom went Republican towards the end of her cognizant life, but she never said anything about it!)

In addition, there is a core and often true sense of victimization that has been brought on by the lightning pace of deindustrialization and technological advancement that’s been incredibly traumatic for an enormous amount of working people across the nation. The feeling of being tossed aside, left behind by history, is something our president naturally tapped into.

There is resentment of elites, of specialists, of cosmopolitan coast dwellers, some of it merited. It is due to attitudes among some that discount the value and sacrifice so many working people have made for their country. When the wars are being fought, they are there.  When the job is dirty and rough, they are there. But the president cynically taps into primal resentments and plays on patriotism for purely his political gain.

There is a desire for a figure who will once again turn back the clock to full factories, high wages, and for some, the social status that comes with being white—that is a difficult elixir, prejudices and all, for folks who are in dire straits to resist. Our president didn’t deliver on the factories or the jobs returning from overseas or much else for our working class. The only thing he delivered on was resentment, division, and the talent for getting our countrymen at each other’s throats. He made good on that, and that is how he thrives.  

 

He was the champion of the working class but he's a bit dismissive of their collective intelligence.  I'm not sure why he thinks they are so easily fooled. 

And suggesting a racist motivation for their choice is also unfair and in my opinion disconnected. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Rizla said:

It seems more like the opposite to me.

You may live in Barcelona, but you can feel you’re related to Asbury Park, some place you may never go. But if a songwriter is writing well and is writing about the human condition, you’ll take them there. They’ll get there.

Us poor unfortunates living in shitty places like Barcelona :rolleyes: can be mentally transported by Bruce's music to the heaven that is the USA.

And I've been a fan of his music for years despite having no particular interest in American culture per se.

I just don't interpret that statement in that way.

He writes what he knows, he paints pictures and makes points.

He does that on a canvass that he knows.

He's not, as I interpret it, saying "Barcelona is shite.....I'm showing you something better".

He's saying that he's trying, as an artist, to take you into the picture.

 

An example, when I read Rick's "First boy on the moon" I was transported to the town he grew up in.

I had no desire to live there, it seemed, on some levels, a fairly solidly worse place than the place I grew up.

But when I was reading the story I was transported there and I felt I had a bit of an understanding of the place Rick grew up.

Which is what good art should do IMHO.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, rtb said:

He was the champion of the working class but he's a bit dismissive of their collective intelligence.

over the years ive seen many "working class" turn to voting Tory when they for instance buy a house or buy shares in the privatization boom, these people were really never working class but what i guess you could call the "selfish class" the im all right  Jack brigade, these people grew in vast numbers in the 80s and 90s here,  Tony Blair for all his faults moved the labour party to a more middle ground to placate a lot of these people, otherwise the labour party would possibly never been reelected, working class to me is about looking after each other, something which has grown a lot during during this pandemic, sadly let  down by people like those in Bournemouth and Brixton, so collective intelligence is a bit insulting to be honest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, MagicRatAFC said:

I just don't interpret that statement in that way.

He writes what he knows, he paints pictures and makes points.

He does that on a canvass that he knows.

He's not, as I interpret it, saying "Barcelona is shite.....I'm showing you something better".

He's saying that he's trying, as an artist, to take you into the picture.

 

An example, when I read Rick's "First boy on the moon" I was transported to the town he grew up in.

I had no desire to live there, it seemed, on some levels, a fairly solidly worse place than the place I grew up.

But when I was reading the story I was transported there and I felt I had a bit of an understanding of the place Rick grew up.

Which is what good art should do IMHO.

But my point really lay in the rest of the quote - where he seems to imply that we like his music because it's American.

"We have our greatest audience overseas—I think two-thirds to more of our audience now is in Europe. People are still captured by and deeply interested in America, what’s going on here and the American myth. The American story is a worldwide story, and it continues to have tremendous power."

Whereas I've liked his music despite it being American! :lol:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Im not sure about Europe but if Bruce had been British i see a huge chip on his shoulder that would have completly turned me off

He has just enough Anerican sunshine to light up the darkness 

Daisey!   a0521.gif

tenor.gif

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rizla said:

But my point really lay in the rest of the quote - where he seems to imply that we like his music because it's American.

"We have our greatest audience overseas—I think two-thirds to more of our audience now is in Europe. People are still captured by and deeply interested in America, what’s going on here and the American myth. The American story is a worldwide story, and it continues to have tremendous power."

Whereas I've liked his music despite it being American! :lol:

But I see that element of the quote as being directed at the specific American socio-political here and now.

 

People are "interested" in what's going on in America, particularly the shit-show that's gone on since 2016.

 

Note, he refers to the American myth rather than dream.

And like it or not, Americ does generate worldwide interest.....on a number of levels. 

I think he means the current American story does generate power overseas.......and not in a positive way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rizla said:

But my point really lay in the rest of the quote - where he seems to imply that we like his music because it's American.

"We have our greatest audience overseas—I think two-thirds to more of our audience now is in Europe. People are still captured by and deeply interested in America, what’s going on here and the American myth. The American story is a worldwide story, and it continues to have tremendous power."

Whereas I've liked his music despite it being American! :lol:

This excerpt smells of American exceptionalism a bit, I agree.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MagicRatAFC said:

But I see that element of the quote as being directed at the specific American socio-political here and now.

 

People are "interested" in what's going on in America, particularly the shit-show that's gone on since 2016.

 

Note, he refers to the American myth rather than dream.

And like it or not, Americ does generate worldwide interest.....on a number of levels. 

I think he means the current American story does generate power overseas.......and not in a positive way.

Would he have called it the American myth when Obama was in office or if Hillary had been elected? Thats where he (and many other partisan-minded people) lose me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MagicRatAFC said:

 

 

Note, he refers to the American myth rather than dream.

 

This caught my attention as well. It speaks volumes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MagicRatAFC said:

An example, when I read Rick's "First boy on the moon" I was transported to the town he grew up in.

I had no desire to live there, it seemed, on some levels, a fairly solidly worse place than the place I grew up.

But when I was reading the story I was transported there and I felt I had a bit of an understanding of the place Rick grew up.

Which is what good art should do IMHO.

When I read this book, I was transported back to my childhood. Now we didn't get into as much trouble as "Richie" did over one summer, but over several summers. Yes. I related to everything Rick described. As maybe some took from Bruce's writings. 

Now for Southern Gospel, I never hitched hiked across America, so didn't relate, besides the great writing Rick did.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jertucky said:

Would he have called it the American myth when Obama was in office or if Hillary had been elected? Thats where he (and many other partisan-minded people) lose me. 

The American Myth is "Bullshit" The American Dream is out there if you want to work your ass off for it. If expecting it to be handed to you, you have another thing coming. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

The American Myth is "Bullshit" The American Dream is out there if you want to work your ass off for it. If expecting it to be handed to you, you have another thing coming. 

If you pay attention or care to see it, the American Dream is playing out in front of our eyes everyday. But only if you care to see it. If you care only to play partisan politics with partisan language, then it is easy to call it a myth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will also point out that it is harder to spot the line between myth and dream from a farm in Colts Neck, NJ. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American mythology is one of the things that I find attractive about America. Europe lost its mythology ages ago. Americans still hold dear to theirs, for better or worse. Not Just the dreams, but there's cowboy mythology, southern goth authors, inspiring mythologies of civil rights struggels, music of mythic proportions, reliogious strands that make Jesus a much more interesting mythology than the catholic church ever managed, let alone the devil. And let's not forget superheroes, so many superheroes they treat as they were real. And the real heroes who's actions become myths. The soldiers of WWI an II, the firemen from 911, the Kennedy's. America excells at mythology.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Jertucky said:

Would he have called it the American myth when Obama was in office or if Hillary had been elected? Thats where he (and many other partisan-minded people) lose me. 

Probably not I guess.

I don't remotely understand American politics, there's a lot of  things that are viewed as normal that make me shake my head.

But that's ok, it's not my country and I don't have to understand.

It strikes me, from the outside looking in,  the model doesn't change much no matter which party/individual is in power.

But the current incumbent is different for a variety of reasons, which I'd imagine we can all see, in terms of ....... aspiration I suppose is the best way to put it.

Hence why the opprobrium is more overt meantime.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Jertucky said:

I will also point out that it is harder to spot the line between myth and dream from a farm in Colts Neck, NJ. 

But maybe not so hard from the road that led there?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.