Marnix

New archive July 2020: Philadelphia September 1999

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1 hour ago, Born To Walk said:

Or that it is so time consuming that it is not cost effective to go through it again.

That too

23 minutes ago, phantomengineer said:

Or they have to swing a dead chicken overhead (counterclockwise) while standing on one foot. Really now, who wants to do that?

I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it might incriminate me

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Just bought the show. This version of Incident is really beautiful, I'm so happy with this release! 

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21 hours ago, Bosstralian said:

With regard to the bootleg issue, who (aside from Paolo for a few days for research purposes) would actually want an audience recording of something now available officially via Nugs? There are absolutely no bootlegs superior to what Nugs has released (certainly since 31/12/80 was upgraded). The Agora 78 release is probably the one least differentiated from what's in circulation but is still at least as good as the best bootleg of that show (at least to my ears).

Im hanging on to my crystal cat winterland 

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On 7/7/2020 at 9:28 AM, lilbud said:

If they went to recover a show from DSD and it was corrupted during the conversion and the output file is completely unusable. And then they didn't have a backup, or something else went wrong with the original files. Then the show would be lost.

(Debunked, but my original theory) If they try to convert an average show and lose it, it wouldn't be as big of a deal as losing something like Shea 2003.

 

11 hours ago, bobfan1976 said:

If that was the case, surely Helsinki proved that it can be done? In which case, the reason as to why there hasn’t been more from 2003, and nothing from 2002, remain unclear.

 

10 hours ago, lilbud said:

Maybe the process is so painful that no one wants to go through it again?

 

10 hours ago, Born To Walk said:

Or that it is so time consuming that it is not cost effective to go through it again.

Or, going back to lilbud's original speculative point, perhaps they have actually tried it again and have indeed irretrievably corrupted a show file(s) while doing so. 

Really, all these speculative reasons are possible but we just don't know. Would it hurt Nugs or Bruce's organisation to actually give us an update on the 2002 / 2003 issue, even if it's effectively a concession of defeat?

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I’m aware of the ‘too time consuming, not cost effective’ theories, which is why I said the reasons remain, ‘unclear’. I’d never considered that maybe they had tried again and lost the files. Whatever the reasons The Rising tour still remains one of the most under represented.

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23 hours ago, Bosstralian said:

With regard to the bootleg issue, who (aside from Paolo for a few days for research purposes) would actually want an audience recording of something now available officially via Nugs? There are absolutely no bootlegs superior to what Nugs has released (certainly since 31/12/80 was upgraded). The Agora 78 release is probably the one least differentiated from what's in circulation but is still at least as good as the best bootleg of that show (at least to my ears).

My criticisms of some of the Nugs releases are (a) how low the audiences often are in the mix and (b) Mr Altschiller's tendency to make it sound as though some nights there weren't even any guitars on stage, only keyboards. Keyboards are a major part of the E Street sound but not to the extent that they block out everything else. 

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23 hours ago, Bosstralian said:

With regard to the bootleg issue, who (aside from Paolo for a few days for research purposes) would actually want an audience recording of something now available officially via Nugs? There are absolutely no bootlegs superior to what Nugs has released (certainly since 31/12/80 was upgraded). The Agora 78 release is probably the one least differentiated from what's in circulation but is still at least as good as the best bootleg of that show (at least to my ears).

Fair point, but I would argue that the boot of Stockholm '88 (first set) is vastly superior to the butchered Nugs version.  In fact I'm not entirely sure that Altschiller really knows how to mix a horn section properly.

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2 hours ago, Paolo's Circus Story said:

Weird how they can't just duplicate a show they're trying to retrieve like you can with any other file on any other drive.

This is why the situation confuses me - even more so, why can't we just use 2002-era equipment to transfer the files to something releasable? I'm guessing it was doable back in 2002/3, otherwise DSD wouldn't have been used. Surely the technology is still around somewhere, it wasn't too long ago

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23 hours ago, Growin' Up said:

So is Paolo to be shot at dawn or merely tarred and feathered?

We’ve taken away his ability to conduct polls :D 

Paolo didn’t do anything wrong on purpose, and I’m actually glad it led to this review and discussion of the guidelines. 

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Oh! We haven't had a good tarring & feathering for years :unsure:

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4 hours ago, BobbyJames said:

This is why the situation confuses me - even more so, why can't we just use 2002-era equipment to transfer the files to something releasable? I'm guessing it was doable back in 2002/3, otherwise DSD wouldn't have been used. Surely the technology is still around somewhere, it wasn't too long ago

The tech is most likely still around, but so many leaps and bounds have been made in computing and audio workflows that the tech from 2002 probably can't convert to formats that can be used today.

7 hours ago, Paolo's Circus Story said:

Weird how they can't just duplicate a show they're trying to retrieve like you can with any other file on any other drive.

I don't think it's like that, it's not so much retrieving the file, it's more converting it to a workable format. Which given the size of a multi track 3 hour show, won't be quick to convert. So there may be a way to convert these shows, but it may be so time consuming (and maybe the rising show didn't sell that well) to justify releasing another show

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5 hours ago, BobbyJames said:

This is why the situation confuses me - even more so, why can't we just use 2002-era equipment to transfer the files to something releasable? I'm guessing it was doable back in 2002/3, otherwise DSD wouldn't have been used. Surely the technology is still around somewhere, it wasn't too long ago

Aah, the enduring mystery of the lack of Rising releases! Is there no way somebody can ask Nugs if we will ever see another one?!

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5 hours ago, judyg said:

We’ve taken away his ability to conduct polls :D 

Paolo didn’t do anything wrong on purpose, and I’m actually glad it led to this review and discussion of the guidelines. 

Poll Driver status revoked and some praise rather than a ban, gidduuuuppp!!!

8aJp.gif

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On 7/7/2020 at 4:26 AM, Bosstralian said:

With regard to the bootleg issue, who (aside from Paolo for a few days for research purposes) would actually want an audience recording of something now available officially via Nugs? There are absolutely no bootlegs superior to what Nugs has released (certainly since 31/12/80 was upgraded). The Agora 78 release is probably the one least differentiated from what's in circulation but is still at least as good as the best bootleg of that show (at least to my ears).

I was working on a live compilation and could only use bootlegs. Some of the shows I picked are available officially, but I had to track down bootlegs of them to use.

Namely: Leeds 2013, Passaic 78, Nassau 80, Buffalo 09, Winterland 78, Ullevi 12 (I was done before the official release).

Also, a part of me will always prefer the bootleg of Passaic 1 78 over the official.

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12 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Im hanging on to my crystal cat winterland 

I prefer the Winterland Boot and Agora boots over the official release.  The original FM broadcast on those were captured and the mix was much better than the recent releases, I still bought them but find myself enjoying the original FM broadcast more.  The NUGS stuff is superior to any of the audience releases for the remaining shows though.

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13 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Im hanging on to my crystal cat winterland 

Australian Boot of Born to Run???

 

kg.jpg

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Interesting to note on the Philly release, Bruce hits the exact same bum note on the guitar intro to Incident...that he did on the LA release. Muscle memory working in reverse!

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On 7/8/2020 at 5:44 PM, Promise61 said:

Fair point, but I would argue that the boot of Stockholm '88 (first set) is vastly superior to the butchered Nugs version.  In fact I'm not entirely sure that Altschiller really knows how to mix a horn section properly.

 

15 hours ago, lilbud said:

I was working on a live compilation and could only use bootlegs. Some of the shows I picked are available officially, but I had to track down bootlegs of them to use.

Namely: Leeds 2013, Passaic 78, Nassau 80, Buffalo 09, Winterland 78, Ullevi 12 (I was done before the official release).

Also, a part of me will always prefer the bootleg of Passaic 1 78 over the official.

 

15 hours ago, 65pacecar said:

I prefer the Winterland Boot and Agora boots over the official release.  The original FM broadcast on those were captured and the mix was much better than the recent releases, I still bought them but find myself enjoying the original FM broadcast more.  The NUGS stuff is superior to any of the audience releases for the remaining shows though.

I concede that when it comes to the radio broadcasts the difference in quality becomes less noticeable. I personally prefer the Nugs versions, but I think with some of the radio broadcast boots which some folks may have listened to over and over and become intimately familiar with the nuances of the radio mix I can understand preferring what you have come to love over the newer version.

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Jesus, 'Point Blank' gave me chills. What a performance.

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16 hours ago, Bosstralian said:

 

 

I concede that when it comes to the radio broadcasts the difference in quality becomes less noticeable. I personally prefer the Nugs versions, but I think with some of the radio broadcast boots which some folks may have listened to over and over and become intimately familiar with the nuances of the radio mix I can understand preferring what you have come to love over the newer version.

That's a very good point

I once read on here someone saying that your first version is also often your favourite 

I just love winterland 

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50 minutes ago, Daisey Jeep said:

I once read on here someone saying that your first version is also often your favourite 

This may or may not have been me. I only say that because I talked about this in my write-up of the Belfast '96 release, so whoever else said it, I pretty much agree. 

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4 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

That's a very good point

I once read on here someone saying that your first version is also often your favourite 

I just love winterland 

To be fair, I haven't actually bought or heard the Nugs version of the Winterland radio show yet. It was always my favourite radio broadcast, but when it was released it was a combination of both the fact the Nugs one was part two track and part multi combined with the fact it was released alongside something I'd never heard in Night 2 that I used my then precious pennies on Night 2 only. I'll get the radio show one next sale Nugs has.

For me, the Passiac radio show Nugs version is better to my ears than the bootleg of that I had. And I concede the mix of Stockholm 88 loses in some respects to the radio mix (the River outro audience sing along is completely lost, that was spine chilling on the radio mix) but overall I prefer the Nugs one there also. But then again I played the bootlegs, well, not exactly rarely but also not to the extent where every sound and nuance is so imprinted on my brain that an alternate mix just sounds alien.

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Prepared to be shot down but this release I fell asleep during the first listen (admittedly with a few sips) and bored during the second. Feels quite forced. Point Blank is one of my favourite songs but the delivery on this is not for me at all.

The mix is very nice though. Would like all releases to get this treatment.

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