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rahmensee

Live in NYC - a butcher's work?

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Hi there!

After years of lurking, I thought I should come out and say hi to GL. That said, I'd like to hear about your opinion on Live in NYC. 

It seems to be common knowledge that this album was, well, more or less a compilation of bits and pieces from the stand at MSG in 2000 (which, according to some, makes this album a butcher's work). For example, LOHAD was cut in a pretty bad way. What's your take on the editing of this album? Hit me up with your best (or worst) examples! :)

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Hello and welcome to the Lake.

I will never understand why including Born to Run was an afterthought and not listed on the track list. It's not as if it was rushed out a few days or weeks after the shows so that it was hot off the press. They had the best part of a year to get it right.

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6 minutes ago, Old English Town said:

Hello and welcome to the Lake.

I will never understand why including Born to Run was an afterthought and not listed on the track list. It's not as if it was rushed out a few days or weeks after the shows so that it was hot off the press. They had the best part of a year to get it right.

Thanks! 

Have to agree on that one. BTR isn't exactly an ideal easter egg.

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Most live-albums are  compilations of songs, not a complete concert. This as far as I know. The only problem I have with Live in NYC is the audience. My impression is that it is a bunch of old people that has come there to sit back and be entertained. The performance is great, sound is great and and the filming is great.

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Garden Party: First things first. When Sony initially announced the track listing for the two-CD set, Internet fan groups lit up over what was missing, so let's clear up one thing: While drawn primarily from the July 1, 2000, Madison Square Garden concert (a few songs come from June 29, as the E Street Band held a 10-night NYC residency), this is not intended as a blow-by-blow reproduction. The final gig of the '99-'00 reunion world tour ran 28 songs and lasted well over three hours, while the main body of Live in New York City is only 13 songs -- 14 on the video -- and about two hours (the CD also adds six "bonus tracks" -- more on that in a moment). Right off, then, the question arises, what did Springsteen have in mind with this set? Clearly, he wasn't concerned with usurping the bootleggers' turf; every date from the tour is in underground circulation, and one bootleg label, Crystal Cat, issued a professional three-CD edition of the entire July 1 show titled Legendary Night.

As Springsteen albums have always been meticulously structured in an attempt to communicate meaning to the fans, this one, too, has its own internal logic. It comprises five distinct "movements" (which I've labeled with my own headings, in parentheses): "My Love Will Not Let You Down"/"Prove It All Night"/"Two Hearts" (The Power of Love, Faith and Camaraderie); "Atlantic City"/"Mansion on the Hill"/"The River" (Raised Hopes, Dashed Dreams); "Youngstown"/"Murder Incorporated"/"Badlands" (A Refusal to Lie Down); "Out in the Street"/"Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out" (Celebration and Release -- including, on the video, "Born to Run"); "Land of Hope and Dreams"/"American Skin" (Transcendence and Passage). Basically, Springsteen has distilled his show down to its essential philosophical core. These themes have frequently appeared in his work over the years, and consistently so during the reunion tour. A songwriter's driving force, after all, is to set forth images, ideas and ideals with the hopes that his audience will, as Springsteen has suggested in interviews, glimpse themselves in his work and in turn grasp the larger connections -- the ties that bind. (It's not a "greatest live hits" package, either, given the inclusion of two new songs and material from Nebraska and the Tracks boxed set.

check the rest of this outstanding article by Fred Mills from Phoenix New Times: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/garden-party-6417254

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3 hours ago, rahmensee said:

What's your take on the editing of this album? Hit me up with your best (or worst) examples! :)

The worst cut of them all: no Blood Brothers.

The second worst edit: sequencing American Skin essentially as a standalone track, removing the powerful narrative Bruce had built around it. 6/29 had a powerful trio: My Hometown, AS, The Promised Land. (The 6/15 trio of Hometown/AS/Code of Silence also fantastic, albeit seemingly out of the recording window).

LINYC sounds great. It's filmed really well, too. But the omissions, song cuts and the failure to integrate the songs properly from the HBO release for the audio/video release is lazy and rather unforgivable.

 

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Talking about 'butchering'....Tenth Avenue and Light Of Day are a hybrid of the 29 June 2000 and 1 July 2000 performances. Tenth Avenue is three parts: first a part from 1 July, middle part from 29 June and last part from 1 July. Many cuts and edits on other tracks too-mainly on the intros and outros of songs-but that is not unusual for live albums. And the 'butchering' of Born To Run as said in a previous post.

One review of the Live In NYC CD (not a review of the DVD) at the time of release said something like 'halfway the second disc we leave New York for some bonus tracks from other cities' [Which of course is not true but example how shoddy, lazy and rushed this all was; or at least the CD version].

And such a shame The Promise is on the DVD but not on the CD version.

In the end it is all about the music; and the DVD is one of the best, if not the best, official Bruce Springsteen live DVD's.

 

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5 hours ago, rahmensee said:

Hi there!

After years of lurking, I thought I should come out and say hi to GL. That said, I'd like to hear about your opinion on Live in NYC. 

It seems to be common knowledge that this album was, well, more or less a compilation of bits and pieces from the stand at MSG in 2000 (which, according to some, makes this album a butcher's work). For example, LOHAD was cut in a pretty bad way. What's your take on the editing of this album? Hit me up with your best (or worst) examples! :)

No, it's not a butcher's work, to answer your question. Even though it might sound like that twenty years later.

As it has been said before, LINYC (the audio version) was supposed to be the soundtrack of the 90 minute HBO special (which was awarded an Emmy Award if memory serves me well). The audio version came out the year before of the LINYC DVD.

I clearly remember the first official announcement of the audio version, because it caused some real fury around here and on the BTX forum (I got my one and only Mod warning in more than twenty years about that :) ). In the first Shorefire media press release, the double album was meant to include the HBO tracks only, without the bonus tracks (nor Born To Run, BTW).

Presumably in the wake of diehard outrage (such a "double album" would have "featured" an hour of empty space, leaving out gems like 'Jungleland', 'The Promise', or 'Lost in The Flood', which at the time hadn't been released in any official live format), Bruce&CO announced the addition of some bonus tracks (from 'Lost in the Flood' to 'If I should fall behind') shortly afterwards. You can still see trace of this last minute addition in the artwork of the CD version. And this is probably the real reason of the omission of 'Born to run' from the artwork tracklist. 

P.S.: except for removing Bruce's introductory spoken words, "This is Land of Hope and Dream", LOHAD was not edited at all. Both the LINYC version and the nugs 7/01/2000 version clock at 9:13.

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52 minutes ago, Lampi said:

Talking about 'butchering'....Tenth Avenue and Light Of Day are a hybrid of the 29 June 2000 and 1 July 2000 performances. Tenth Avenue is three parts: first a part from 1 July, middle part from 29 June and last part from 1 July. 

 

Ah, yes! Forgot about 10th ave. That's a good example of a butcher's work. :)

Like someone just said, I always had a problem with the absence of Code of Silence and Blood Brothers on the album. Thank Goodness for the magic of bootlegging and the latter day archive release!

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1 hour ago, Frank said:

 

P.S.: except for removing Bruce's introductory spoken words, "This is Land of Hope and Dream", LOHAD was not edited at all. Both the LINYC version and the nugs 7/01/2000 version clock at 9:13.

True. Hence the strange "click" in the beginning of the song on that always irritates me. Not as bad as cutting the Sad Eyes portion from Backstreets on the 75/85 Album, but still irritating IMO.

That being said, LOHAD is one of the songs that got me hooked about 20 years ago. Too bad I have this hangup.

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In the breakdown where he introduces the band (10th Ave?), he's beseeching Patti during her roll call and uses the expression "a vacation from masturbation" which is removed.

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3 hours ago, TheBoss said:

My impression is that it is a bunch of old people that has come there to sit back and be entertained.

Isn't that sorta allowed once you have paid for your ticket?

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5 hours ago, rahmensee said:

Hi there!

After years of lurking, I thought I should come out and say hi to GL. That said, I'd like to hear about your opinion on Live in NYC. 

It seems to be common knowledge that this album was, well, more or less a compilation of bits and pieces from the stand at MSG in 2000 (which, according to some, makes this album a butcher's work). For example, LOHAD was cut in a pretty bad way. What's your take on the editing of this album? Hit me up with your best (or worst) examples! :)

Welcome!

I tend to agree with your points here.  I too dislike the butchering.  On the DVD, adding up the feature film and the "bonus" clips, the running time was probably close to that of an entire show anyway, so why didn't they just release that?

On the other hand, the LINYC CD was still a worthy effort to release a live Springsteen album on a major label (assuming you don't count Nugs as a major label which I don't).  It still has the best officially released "Jungleland" performance of the current era (my opinion).  And also the only place where you can find an official release of a live "Don't Look Back" performance of the current era, if I'm not mistaken.

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2 hours ago, rahmensee said:

 Not as bad as cutting the Sad Eyes portion from Backstreets on the 75/85 Album, but still irritating IMO.

 

For me that is the kindest cut. If they didn't do it I would, and have.

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Thanks you lot. That was a really interesting thread. There are some clever people here ( Possible song link to Ian Dury )

I never knew most of this story....I will
have to listen to it carefully.

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Not much to complain about the LINYC DVD, but the Barcelona DVD... :blink: It has around half million angle changes that makes no sense, like watching ADHD slideshow.

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8 hours ago, badlands78 said:

Isn't that sorta allowed once you have paid for your ticket?

If you have that kind of questions, ask them before you buy your ticket.

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1 hour ago, TheBoss said:

If you have that kind of questions, ask them before you buy your ticket.

Ticketmaster gladly took my money 12 times, no questions asked!

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I think it works for what it is. I don't think Bruce ever intended it to be just a concert tour souvenir, he probably wanted it to be a unique entry in his catalog that could stand as a true album along his studio works, and in many ways it succeeds as that. It's both a showcase for the newly reformed E Street Band and a way to show that they were not coming back as an oldies act, that they were still fresh and experimental. I think this shows in the track selection. You've got the two new tracks which would prove to be more than worthy additions to the band's act, some deep cuts like "My Love Will Not Let You Down", "Don't Look Back", and "Lost in the Flood", renditions of "Atlantic City", "Mansion on the Hill", "The River", "Youngstown", "Born in the USA", and "If I Should Fall Behind" that are vastly different from the album versions and give the spotlight to the band members, not to mention the epic extended "Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out". I think at the time, it was an important album in Bruce's discography. That importance might have dwindled a little bit now that countless of archival live albums have been released (including one of the MSG shows recorded for the album) but in the context of the time, I appreciate its existence.

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Both sides of the argument makes sense. Personally, I was underwhelmed by the track listing but I'm one of those people who wants a complete concert and bonus disc with all the other songs played during the stand type of person. Now the Archive programme is in full swing I can enjoy Live in NYC for what it is, although I don't play it very often, in fact never!

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As I see it, LINYC the album was "just" the soundtrack to LINYC the music film, and the film format dictated the album. LINYC was never concieved as a live album, just like Live 1975-85 was never intended to be a concert substitute. 

If LINUC was successful or not, is up to the listener, as always. It's certainly flawed in many ways.

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The strangeness of the album starts with the cover... a recreation of a BITUSA era live image. 

And visually there is no correlation with the later LINYC DVD... the colour scheme, font, artwork all completely different so it is not immediately clear the two products are even related.

Given the great Reunion era show we just got a few days ago, plus the three earlier ones and the fact we know there is more in the vault (at the very least, further MSG 2000 material) it does beg the question as to why they didn't release a more thought out 2 or 3 CD compilation of the whole tour at the time. Especially given how Bruce espoused the tour as a 'rededication' of the band and his contemporaneous praise of how well the band played on that tour.

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The album confused me

I was pretty green then but i trully loved LINYC and i had become fixated on the promise having no idea it was a rearity

By the time i went looking for the cds they were no longer available in this far flung then neglected comer of the Springsteen universe

I got a copy 2nd hand from slow boat records in Cuba st Wellington

To this day i have no idea if it was surposed to have a lyric sheet

It really confussed me 

Why wasn't BTR on the track list ?

I had never heard of a hidden track before

Where was the promise ?

What ? Iknow have to track down 18 tracks also not available in NZ by then ?

So although it confussed me i played and played it and loved it as i don't have the know how to know how to rip a cd from my beloved LINYC dvds

And i love every last second of those dvds and no matter how many wonderful nugs shows we get from this tour my story starts with LINYC despite owning BITUSA back in 84 as a 12 year old

I love that many of you were at those shows because i wanted to be you when i first watched it same as i still want to be you guys now

@rahmensee welcome to the lake

May your stay be long and happy here with us

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2 hours ago, Bosstralian said:

The strangeness of the album starts with the cover... a recreation of a BITUSA era live image. 

And visually there is no correlation with the later LINYC DVD... the colour scheme, font, artwork all completely different so it is not immediately clear the two products are even related.

Given the great Reunion era show we just got a few days ago, plus the three earlier ones and the fact we know there is more in the vault (at the very least, further MSG 2000 material) it does beg the question as to why they didn't release a more thought out 2 or 3 CD compilation of the whole tour at the time. Especially given how Bruce espoused the tour as a 'rededication' of the band and his contemporaneous praise of how well the band played on that tour.

As for the album artwork, things were proper made, I think (before the bonus addition that I mentioned before, I mean). The central picture was the 'Tour 1999-(2000)' (it was never called reunion tour at the time, btw)  main logo. The stars might have been a clin d'oeil to the flag stripes of the 'Born in the USA' artwork, but that's all. Also, if memory, the artwork was realized in the collaboration with art printmaker Jim Sherraden.

Again, the album was intended to feature the soundtrack of the HBO special (the sticker on the plastic wrap made it abundantly clear), which had no cover, of course.

What is somewhat strange is the different DVD artwork (pretty poorly done, in terms of design and picture resolution), especially if one considers the aforementioned Sherraden connection. The DVD came out some nine months after the CD, so such a rushed artwork remains a mystery.

My personal guess is that after 9/11 (the DVD release was announced in mid September 2001 and came out in November of the same year) Bruce&CO might have wanted something less bombastic and more sober. Or maybe they wanted to focus on the 'American Skin' controversy (which I doubt), given that the chosen front cover is basically the, "We need some quiet" photogram.  But we will never know, I guess. 

 

 

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