Jump to content
Greasy Lake Community

My Hometown used in political ad


AMIW
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

I do find it odd that an overwhelming ( disproportionately) amount of the mailed in/ absentee ballots are all going to Biden. 

But at the end of the day, we will all survive, it will just be how much harder we will have to work to stay ahead.    

It's not odd at all, considering Trump has been saying for months that mail-in voting is full of fraud. When I went to vote, there was a woman who had driven all the way from Alabama to Chicago just to vote for Trump (she claimed she still owns a house here- sure!). She could have easily done that by mail. (Besides which, she just wasted her time and gas, since Illinois is historically blue.)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

Thanks Jim, I can never embarrass myself when making a statement that never meant to be anything official. I was watching Penn results last night Trump had a 500k lead in the morning that evaporated when they started reporting the mail ins. That's how I concluded to that comment.

Jim, can I ask you, do you think Trump's lawsuits useless? 

Just watched a video from the election center in Detroit where all Republicans were asked to leave the room. And cheers erupted.

If you look at the PA numbers in the link I posted, Ds requested ~1.16 million more mail-in ballots and returned ~1.05 million more. Applying those 95:5 and 90:10 ratios above (which actually gives the Rs more votes from the Ds than the Ds get from the Rs) that's just over 1 million more votes expected to be counted for Biden than for Trump WHEN MAIL-IN VOTES ARE COUNTED. In PA those mail-in votes cannot be counted until election day, and some counties weren't going to start until Wednesday. So a +500k Trump lead based on votes cast on election day getting overtaken by 1 million extra mail-in votes actually cast earlier but NOT COUNTED until AFTER election day is completely in line with expectations.

I need to add that in WI, and MI, and PA, the legislatures are all controlled by Rs. In each state the election professionals asked for the legislature to allow mail-in votes to start being processed earlier in anticipation of more mail-in votes this year due to COVID (Pa is ~10 times the number of mail-in votes in 2016!). In each case the state legislatures REFUSED to act to allow more efficient processing. A vote cast early carries exactly the same weight as one cast on election day, but they are not counted and reported at the same time. Do not be mislead by incomplete information, especially when it has been intentionally manipulated.

The R party across the country has disgraced itself by opposing simple American goals: every eligible voter should be registered, every registered voter should be afforded maximal opportunity to cast their vote, and every vote validly cast should be accurately counted.

"Trump's lawsuits" is way too vague to answer - he has so many. But the latest ones, trying to actually stop the counting in MI, PA, GA, and NC, have an Elvis Costello chance of success - Less Than Zero. The history of America and election law is that we count validly cast votes. The bigger disputes would be over whether the casting of the votes - signature match procedures, witness signatures, ballots not in their security envelope (PA only IIRC), receipt date, postmarks, etc. Because each state has its own election laws with different requirements, broad statements are not available.

As has been pointed out in many reports, lawsuits are only appropriate to correct something done against the existing law. Nothing that is being done to count the votes in MI, or GA, or NC, or PA is against existing law. Trump has a long history of threatening, or even filing, lawsuits to bully opponents. His track record in court is laughably poor. 

I cannot directly address whatever video you think you saw from Detroit, but all reports I have seen are straightforward. IIRC each party is by law allowed one person per precinct to review the ballots as they are processed, and that was strictly followed. ETA: I now see that there was apparently some issue with the overall capacity of the room, and some observers from both parties were excluded. On the surface, bad planning to not choose a room with the capacity to hold the full expected capacity. But that was due, as I understand it, to reduced capacity because of COVID-related restrictions. If I was running things and knew of that, I'd get both parties together, have each line up single-file, and let them in Noah's Ark style, two-by-two, until full. Then when one of either party wanted/needed to leave, they could be replaced by their own party. But crowds banging on doors or windows, or taking pictures/videos where prohibited by law, is never ok.

Other people are absolutely NOT allowed where the votes are processed and counted. If you watch the HBO documentary "537 Votes" about the 2000 recount in Florida you can see a similar scene of a crowd of R supporters trying to improperly invade a space where they were not allowed. Not a new tactic at all. Still not legal, either.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, chevy396 said:

Thanks for your explanation, very informative, but still as a person living in another part of the world i like to ask you explaining the following part :

"Trump's lawsuits" is way too vague to answer - he has so many. But the latest ones, trying to actually stop the counting in MI, PA, GA, and NC, have an Elvis Costello chance of success - Less Than Zero. The history of America and election law is that we count validly cast votes. The bigger disputes would be over whether the casting of the votes - signature match procedures, witness signatures, ballots not in their security envelope (PA only IIRC), receipt date, postmarks, etc. Because each state has its own election laws with different requirements, broad statements are not available.

My question is : Are the, or aren't there any risk of manipulating votes given through postal services or online votings ?

Sorry my question, but I was just curious.

The US does not very much of its own data for online voting, but it will become the norm... eventually.

As for risks, it's .0009%, voter fraud has a chance of occurring less than one percent of the time. the republican's decry democrats attempts at manipulating the election, when the only proven cases are republicans tampering with ballots.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746800630/north-carolina-gop-operative-faces-new-felony-charges-that-allege-ballot-fraud

Election fraud is no joke according to the president when done by democrats, but is okay when republicans do it?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/10/west-virginia-mail-carrier-guilty-election-fraud-altered-ballot-requests/5412010002/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, chevy396 said:

Thanks for your explanation, very informative, but still as a person living in another part of the world i like to ask you explaining the following part :

"Trump's lawsuits" is way too vague to answer - he has so many. But the latest ones, trying to actually stop the counting in MI, PA, GA, and NC, have an Elvis Costello chance of success - Less Than Zero. The history of America and election law is that we count validly cast votes. The bigger disputes would be over whether the casting of the votes - signature match procedures, witness signatures, ballots not in their security envelope (PA only IIRC), receipt date, postmarks, etc. Because each state has its own election laws with different requirements, broad statements are not available.

My question is : Are the, or aren't there any risk of manipulating votes given through postal services or online votings ?

Sorry my question, but I was just curious.

There is no material voter fraud from mail in ballots in the US. Ben Ginsburg, the lead lawyer for the R party for 40 years, says so. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/

There are numerous checks to ensure that any given voter votes no more than once, and that the mail ballot received came from the voter it was sent to. [I'm not aware of any online voting in the US as we aren't convinced of the security.] So when Trump falsely posited thousands or millions of ballots printed in China and infiltrated into the US election system he was once again wrong. We can send you a mail ballot, and if it hasn't been counted yet (you didn't send it back, or even it got lost in the mail and it's now election day - most places you can track it online to see if it's been received ;)) you can vote in person, and your mail ballot will be invalidated.

The whole signature verification procedure is where opponents like to start challenges - "That's not an exact match, I challenge!" When I was about 8 I helped my father with a case of his, matching signatures on checks. So I got an early exposure to the process. But you can see how someone desiring to obstruct a vote from being included might attempt to use that provision. Here in Florida, when a voter shows up and presents a photo ID in addition to electronically signing in we can look at the picture and be more relaxed about someone who used a finger to sign a tablet.

States like Florida here process your mail ballot when received, alert you if there is an issue (missing, or mismatched signature), anery voted allow you to fix it. Some states do not process until election day, but do allow you to cure a defect (much like you could vote a "provisional ballot" under some circumstances and have a few days to cure whatever defect prohibited you from voting a regular ballot in the first place). In GA I have read of a few ballots with issues, and every voter was supposedly contacted either by email or overnight mail. It may not be perfect, but in fairness they already had one chance to get it right. At my voting location Tuesday the clerk worked patiently with the very few with issues in order to get them allowed to vote - things like college students registered in other counties. Literally 3 or 4 out of more than 330 voters.

 

  • Like 1
  • Love Love Love! 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, chevy396 said:

Thanks for answering my question. I wasn't asking whether Republicans or Democrats are doing it - Simply put : Is it possible in the US ?

But from the links provided by you, it seems a possibibility that it CAN happen. Kind of disturbing to my democratic upbringing (Living in one of the oldest nations with democracy).

Sorry there, but yes it is possible but extremely unlikely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

 

Just watched a video from the election center in Detroit where all Republicans were asked to leave the room. And cheers erupted.

In what contexts where the republicans asked to leave the room ?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jimmy James said:

 

Just watched a video from the election center in Detroit where all Republicans were asked to leave the room. And cheers erupted.

Link, please.

Everything I have researched and read has said that each party was allowed 134 watchers, as established by law, and numbers over that were not allowed. So I'd be interested in "all Republicans being asked to leave" and cheers after that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, JimCT said:

Link, please.

Everything I have researched and read has said that each party was allowed 134 watchers, as established by law, and numbers over that were not allowed. So I'd be interested in "all Republicans being asked to leave" and cheers after that.

Believe me I've tried to find it. I seen it on Fox News approx 17 hours ago. I can't seem to find it. Even if it was only a 30 second clip within a number of different video's I've been looking at. Sorry, I'll keep trying! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/4/2020 at 11:40 PM, Jimmy James said:

Thanks Jim, I can never embarrass myself when making a statement that never meant to be anything official. I was watching Penn results last night Trump had a 500k lead in the morning that evaporated when they started reporting the mail ins. That's how I concluded to that comment.

Jim, can I ask you, do you think Trump's lawsuits useless? 

Just watched a video from the election center in Detroit where all Republicans were asked to leave the room. And cheers erupted.

Not all Republicans. Just the ones who entered lawlessly. 

There are Republicans and Democrats in every single place where there is vote counting.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Daisey Jeep said:

Were the same about of democrats also asked to leave the room ?

They didn't break into the building. People were applauding that law was restored. (I am sure they were also happy to feel safer.)

Each ballot is inspected and tabulated by two people, a Democrat and a Republican. There's a sweet story of two of them becoming friends, even in this divisive voting cycle.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

Who would have thought that Joe Biden would be more popular than Barrack Obama!  

Well, Obama famously said he decided to run for president because he couldn't be the Boss, but - thanks to his successor -, Biden was already awarded his celebrated "café" long before becoming the Democrat candidate. You can beat that, can you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/4/2020 at 6:34 PM, Daisey Jeep said:

Can i please ask this question. Its about your system not voter choice so i hope its ok to ask 

Regarding what i just read about mail in votes in Nevada

How do they know which voter hadn't signed their ballot ?

Why are voters signing ballots ?

Isnt it confidential and the ballot is secrete

Here you rock up on election day to any number of community based polling stations

They send you an ID letter a few weeks before to speed up the process but you dont need to produce it

They look your name up on the roll and cross you out

I assume at some latter date someone checks no one voted more than once

Then you go behind the cardboard booth with the ballot paper they just gave you and one does the ticking, then you drop your vote into a cardboard box labeled to your particular electorate 

No where on the ballot paper is the voter's name but Gary is always worried someone will be able to tell how he votes -(he's a closet conservative)  but they can't 

 

This is a screen shot

Someone is asking why it takes Nevada so long to count their vote when they have low electorial college numbers Screenshot_20201105-141531.thumb.png.a9a3be8c366bf5b0106201841ec132ed.png

 

 

I don't know about Nevada but here in Montana you have to sign the back of the envelope that is mailed or turned in. Inside is the ballot that is within another envelope so that the ballot and signature can be separated to keep how you actually vote secret from your name. The signatures on the outside envelope are compared to your signature on your registration and if they don't match the ballot isn't accepted. I hope that makes sense!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jimmy James said:

Who would have thought that Joe Biden would be more popular than Barrack Obama!  

Yet another nonsensical comment. Many more people voted in this election than in Obama's. It's not that Biden's more popular than Obama, it's that many more people (including republicans, btw) wanted the other guy out.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, JustDan said:

Yet another nonsensical comment. Many more people voted in this election than in Obama's. It's not that Biden's more popular than Obama, it's that many more people (including republicans, btw) wanted the other guy out.

Don't know looks to me about 3 million more like him over Obama.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Odd system you have over there. In the UK we wouldn't know how many actual votes have been cast and counted until they've all actually been counted. Yet in the US you have this running tally of the count. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Demos said:

Odd system you have over there. In the UK we wouldn't know how many actual votes have been cast and counted until they've all actually been counted. Yet in the US you have this running tally of the count. 

We have the running telly here

Im not kidding like 5% of the vote of a particular electorate will be counted and its made into a 10 min analysts on tv . by which time 11% of the vote might be counted somewhere else 

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/5/2020 at 8:10 PM, misty rain said:

It's not odd at all, considering Trump has been saying for months that mail-in voting is full of fraud. When I went to vote, there was a woman who had driven all the way from Alabama to Chicago just to vote for Trump (she claimed she still owns a house here- sure!). She could have easily done that by mail. (Besides which, she just wasted her time and gas, since Illinois is historically blue.)

If it wasn't for covid i wouldn't have a problem with this 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...