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2 hours ago, JudgeBrown said:

Bumgarner's no-hitter not an official no-hitter due to it being in a 7-inning doubleheader game per the new rules.  What say y'all?

That 7 inning thing needs to end. All the other stuff needs to end also. Get back to real baseball, that don't watch much of anymore.

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3 hours ago, JudgeBrown said:

Bumgarner's no-hitter not an official no-hitter due to it being in a 7-inning doubleheader game per the new rules.  What say y'all?

He doesn't get the no-hitter, but he does get credit for a shutout.  To me that doesn't seem logical.  It would seem like he should get credit for both, or not get credit for either.  Below is what I saw on ESPN about the lack of a no-no.

Bumgarner's gem won't go into the official list of no-hitters. MLB's eight-man committee on statistical accuracy decided in 1991 that a no-hitter was a game of nine or more innings that ended with no hits.

I could see if the game was scheduled for 9 innings and cut short to not credit a no-hitter but when he pitched the entire scheduled game then he should get credit.  I think this is an unintended consequence of the double header change that wasn't thought about, or not thought about enough.

I think there is at least one case where a pitcher had a no-hitter after 8 innings on the road but had given up an unearned run and his team was being shut out.  Since the home team was up there was no need for them to bat in the bottom of the 9th.  In this case the game was scheduled for 9 innings and the pitcher only had 8 innings without giving up a hit so the lack of a no-hitter makes sense to me.

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4 hours ago, JudgeBrown said:

Bumgarner's no-hitter not an official no-hitter due to it being in a 7-inning doubleheader game per the new rules.  What say y'all?

#ICallBullshit

If it can't be an "official" no hitter, then how does baseball call it a shut out, a complete game and a win?   I understand not calling that a "no hitter" if the game had a weather delay of 3 hours and then end was cancelled.  But per the rules, it was only going to be a 7 inning scheduled game, so to me that's "complete"

This is one of the issues with screwing around with 100 years of rules and traditions -

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16 minutes ago, JudgeBrown said:

Another point - by winning that game, the D'backs got credit for 1 win, not .78 of a win.

The craziest part of that day is it was a double header and in the first game Zac Gallen tossed a 1 hitter, also a complete game and a shut out and an official "win" but only pitched 7 innings, as that's the rule this year.

The Dbacks aren't that good, but obviously caught the Braves on a bad day - 14 innings, 1 hit, no runs in the doubleheader

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46 minutes ago, CmonMrTrouble said:

The craziest part of that day is it was a double header and in the first game Zac Gallen tossed a 1 hitter, also a complete game and a shut out and an official "win" but only pitched 7 innings, as that's the rule this year.

The Dbacks aren't that good, but obviously caught the Braves on a bad day - 14 innings, 1 hit, no runs in the doubleheader

Yeah that was quite the dominance.

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I haven't seen anybody in support of not calling it a no-hitter, but haven't looked either. 

I wonder if MLB will change the rule and call it a no-hitter with an * that indicates a 7 inning game.  I know for a while that the 61 home runs had an * for years because it was set in a 162 game season when the old record of 60 was in a 156 game season.

To me the right thing to do is to call it a no-hitter but indicate it was 7 innings.

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I did a google search, there have been over 300 9 inning no-hitters in MLB history, and the team to throw the no-hitter has won all but 2 of the games.

There is also one instance of a combined nine-inning no-hitter resulting in a loss, as well as a trio of eight-inning no-hitters that ended in an L.

These pitchers threw a no-hitter ... and lost

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38 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

This popped up on my Retro Baseball feed this morning. Interesting! 

image.thumb.png.aa109d80a4a2a85965b86d63ac4e9125.png

Misleading, I think. Teams that allow lots of base runners are in a position to turn DPs. Teams with strong pitching are less likely. Think Baltimore Orioles circa 1970, with Palmer, McNally, Cuellar, etc. Willie Randolph was a fine 2B, but he played on so-so Yankee teams, so he had lots of chances. 

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12 minutes ago, JimCT said:

Misleading, I think. Teams that allow lots of base runners are in a position to turn DPs. Teams with strong pitching are less likely. Think Baltimore Orioles circa 1970, with Palmer, McNally, Cuellar, etc. Willie Randolph was a fine 2B, but he played on so-so Yankee teams, so he had lots of chances. 

I think that's why I said interesting. But I think this is more about longevity then anything? All the years with Ozzie Smith here you would think a second baseman from the Cardinals would be there. But there was a lot a changes at 2nd base for the Cards over his time.  

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I'm not sure that I agree with Jim.  I would think that a good pitcher would be more likely to be able to get a hitter to hit a ground ball that could be a double play ball where an average pitcher may only get a pop-up or fly ball out.

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Also, going back to the 7 innings for double headers.  When do they do the 7th inning stretch, do they even have one?  If they do it in the normal place if the home team is winning the game is over when it is time for it.

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9 minutes ago, burghfan said:

Also, going back to the 7 innings for double headers.  When do they do the 7th inning stretch, do they even have one?  If they do it in the normal place if the home team is winning the game is over when it is time for it.

It has been replaced by the fifth inning twitch.

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17 minutes ago, JudgeBrown said:

OK and let's also talk about starting off the tenth inning with a runner on 2B...

Don't like it.  A pitcher can get 2 ground ball or fly ball outs and the runner scores.  Make the offense earn the run.

If you are going to go to a gimmick so it is less likely that you are going to have a lot of extra innings I say go with something that is all gimmick.  I say throw BP to the pitchers on each team, each pitcher gets 3 swings, first to hit a HR wins the game.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy James said:

I think that's why I said interesting. But I think this is more about longevity then anything? All the years with Ozzie Smith here you would think a second baseman from the Cardinals would be there. But there was a lot a changes at 2nd base for the Cards over his time.  

Every "most in a career" or similar stat is based on longevity. To assess "efficiency" some 2d stat must be employed for context. Here's a favorite example of mine: the 3,000 hit club. Look at the column of how many ABs it took to get there. Stan the Man got there in 916 fewer ABs than Rose, for example.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hi3000c.shtml

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41 minutes ago, burghfan said:

I'm not sure that I agree with Jim.  I would think that a good pitcher would be more likely to be able to get a hitter to hit a ground ball that could be a double play ball where an average pitcher may only get a pop-up or fly ball out.

And the infielder controls none of that. All he can do is make the play, or not, if the opportunity is presented. 

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