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Purpose of Some Songs


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On 6/29/2021 at 6:00 PM, Jimmy James said:

Why does he feel the need to humanize them? I still can't figure out why would he put Paradise on The Rising. I thought The Rising was to lift us up, not remind us what happened? 

Because they are human. 

Humans do terrible things.  All the time.  Every day.   Terrible things are happening to humans.  There are artists who dare to attempt to convey the entire scope of the human experience.  

Every opinion counts but I never thought The Rising was supposed to life anyone up.  The title song is about doomed firemen.  While the music is seemingly uplifting, the story, nonetheless, is about  a bunch of guys who were moments from death.  Sure, the song underscores the bravery of these men, but the end is the same.  And like it or not, the firemen were dead before the end of the first verse.  Come on up for The Rising.  The chains that bind me, indeed.  They had no choice.  It's really a brilliant song, but uplifting?  It's tragic from beginning to end.  

The Rising is the trick that Springsteen talked about in his first Broadway show.  That record is filled with ghosts. 

as far as Springsteen shushing the crowd:  Shush.  You were probably the guy yelling for Glory Days (and missing the point) when he was playing One Step Up.  

There are plenty of musicians that play tunes that require nothing of you.  Lotsa those country bumpkins sing about the never ending glory of america and the blessed purpose of it's fab citizens.  Listen to them.  Lee Greenwood...there's a guy who could blow coke with the best of them and suckered every patriotic american in the country to buy his ridiculous record.  

 

;)  

 

Happy Independence Day everyone.  At least you know you're free, if you're the right sort.  

 

 

AA11DEDE-1961-41F1-93A0-8CCCDFFCEB23.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Floom2 said:

Because they are human. 

Humans do terrible things.  All the time.  Every day.   Terrible things are happening to humans.  There are artists who dare to attempt to convey the entire scope of the human experience.  

Every opinion counts but I never thought The Rising was supposed to life anyone up.  The title song is about doomed firemen.  While the music is seemingly uplifting, the story, nonetheless, is about  a bunch of guys who were moments from death.  Sure, the song underscores the bravery of these men, but the end is the same.  And like it or not, the firemen were dead before the end of the first verse.  Come on up for The Rising.  The chains that bind me, indeed.  They had no choice.  It's really a brilliant song, but uplifting?  It's tragic from beginning to end.  

The Rising is the trick that Springsteen talked about in his first Broadway show.  That record is filled with ghosts. 

as far as Springsteen shushing the crowd:  Shush.  You were probably the guy yelling for Glory Days (and missing the point) when he was playing One Step Up.  

There are plenty of musicians that play tunes that require nothing of you.  Lotsa those country bumpkins sing about the never ending glory of america and the blessed purpose of it's fab citizens.  Listen to them.  Lee Greenwood...there's a guy who could blow coke with the best of them and suckered every patriotic american in the country to buy his ridiculous record.  

 

;)  

 

Happy Independence Day everyone.  At least you know you're free, if you're the right sort.  

 

 

AA11DEDE-1961-41F1-93A0-8CCCDFFCEB23.jpeg

Shush if you want to shush. Clap along if you want to clap along. When he’s shushing the crowd to pay careful attention to a song that is not all that deep to begin with it is conceit in action. Again, why did he want people to shut up for 41 Shots but lead the crowd in fist pumping to Born in the USA? He’s a rock star, not a Broadway actor. Oops……

As an aside, I absolutely love that picture.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Floom2 said:

Because they are human. 

Humans do terrible things.  All the time.  Every day.   Terrible things are happening to humans.  There are artists who dare to attempt to convey the entire scope of the human experience.  

Every opinion counts but I never thought The Rising was supposed to life anyone up.  The title song is about doomed firemen.  While the music is seemingly uplifting, the story, nonetheless, is about  a bunch of guys who were moments from death.  Sure, the song underscores the bravery of these men, but the end is the same.  And like it or not, the firemen were dead before the end of the first verse.  Come on up for The Rising.  The chains that bind me, indeed.  They had no choice.  It's really a brilliant song, but uplifting?  It's tragic from beginning to end.  

The Rising is the trick that Springsteen talked about in his first Broadway show.  That record is filled with ghosts. 

as far as Springsteen shushing the crowd:  Shush.  You were probably the guy yelling for Glory Days (and missing the point) when he was playing One Step Up.  

There are plenty of musicians that play tunes that require nothing of you.  Lotsa those country bumpkins sing about the never ending glory of america and the blessed purpose of it's fab citizens.  Listen to them.  Lee Greenwood...there's a guy who could blow coke with the best of them and suckered every patriotic american in the country to buy his ridiculous record.  

 

;)  

 

Happy Independence Day everyone.  At least you know you're free, if you're the right sort.  

 

 

AA11DEDE-1961-41F1-93A0-8CCCDFFCEB23.jpeg

That's a great picture of Johnny Cash and a very good post to boot !

Happy 4th of July 

Stay safe America 

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5 hours ago, Jertucky said:

Shush if you want to shush. Clap along if you want to clap along. When he’s shushing the crowd to pay careful attention to a song that is not all that deep to begin with it is conceit in action. Again, why did he want people to shut up for 41 Shots but lead the crowd in fist pumping to Born in the USA?

 

 

Well, musicians might need quiet to perform, especially when the number they're going to perform is slow, recent and not fully rehearsed. Like it or not, American Skin (41 Shots) had a pretty slow and complex introduction, especially in its first live incarnation: Clarence, Steve, Nils and Patti singing, before Bruce joining in to start the song's crescendo. It wasn't the "Max, 1, 2, 3, 4 autopilot rocker" played a million times before. Before the Madison Square Garden Shows in 2000, American Skin (41 Shots) had been performed only once live. It's only normal that Bruce and the band "needed some quiet". And for the matter, Bruce had asked his audience for quiet well before when quiet was needed, regardless of the content of the song. Take the Christic Institute shows or the whole World Acoustic Tour for the matter. Was he asking his audience not to clap along in order to pay special attention to strictly personal stuff like Brilliant Disguise or Adam Raised a Cain back then?  I don't think so. Had he been shushing his fans to make them pay attention to the lyrics, he would have kept doing it every time American Skin (41 Shots) was performed over the years. And we perfectly know this has not been the case. 

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3 hours ago, Frank said:

Well, musicians might need quiet to perform, especially when the number they're going to perform is slow, recent and not fully rehearsed. Like it or not, American Skin (41 Shots) had a pretty slow and complex introduction, especially in its first live incarnation: Clarence, Steve, Nils and Patti singing, before Bruce joining in to start the song's crescendo. It wasn't the "Max, 1, 2, 3, 4 autopilot rocker" played a million times before. Before the Madison Square Garden Shows in 2000, American Skin (41 Shots) had been performed only once live. It's only normal that Bruce and the band "needed some quiet". And for the matter, Bruce had asked his audience for quiet well before when quiet was needed, regardless of the content of the song. Take the Christic Institute shows or the whole World Acoustic Tour for the matter. Was he asking his audience not to clap along in order to pay special attention to strictly personal stuff like Brilliant Disguise or Adam Raised a Cain back then?  I don't think so. Had he been shushing his fans to make them pay attention to the lyrics, he would have kept doing it every time American Skin (41 Shots) was performed over the years. And we perfectly know this has not been the case. 

Yeah, possibly. It may also have been for dramatic effect, knowing it was being recorded to be released as a live album. At the end of the day I suppose none of it really matters and would have no effect on me if I was at the show.

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On 7/3/2021 at 11:12 PM, Jertucky said:

Shush if you want to shush. Clap along if you want to clap along. When he’s shushing the crowd to pay careful attention to a song that is not all that deep to begin with it is conceit in action. Again, why did he want people to shut up for 41 Shots but lead the crowd in fist pumping to Born in the USA? He’s a rock star, not a Broadway actor. Oops……

As an aside, I absolutely love that picture.

 

 

Re: the shushing. 
 

he’s just trying to get his music heard. Maybe you’re right in that rock and roll is better as ROCK AND ROLL and he’s spent years wasting his time trying to convey something more profound than womp bop a loo bomp a womp bam boom.  

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1 hour ago, Floom2 said:

Re: the shushing. 
 

he’s just trying to get his music heard. Maybe you’re right in that rock and roll is better as ROCK AND ROLL and he’s spent years wasting his time trying to convey something more profound than womp bop a loo bomp a womp bam boom.  

It’s arrogant. Did the Beatles shush the crowd? Pearl Jam? Neil Young? Is it something a lot of artists do? Dylan? I am asking that honestly as I’m not a big concert goer. 

As for that song being profound, I honestly don’t see it. As others have said in here, I don’t see the controversy.

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On 6/30/2021 at 11:43 PM, MacBruce said:

Nebraska; Bruce was quoted about the song "Nebraska was about that American isolation; what happens to people when they're alienated from their friends and their community and their government and their job. Because those are the things that keep you sane, that give meaning to life in some fashion. And if they slip away, and you start to exist in some void where the basic constraints of society are a joke, then life becomes kind of a joke. And anything can happen".

Personally, I see the song as a warning, given Bruce's explanation given above. I think it's an incredibly powerful song which heralds an album which remains to this day for me one of Bruce's masterpiece records.

 

That was very eloquently put by Bruce but the song itself taken on its own terms doesn't do that. You'd never know that was the purpose of the song without Bruce telling us. It merely summarises the plot of a Terence Mallick movie with a generic tune sung over a really quite unremarkable piece of music. I would still cite the writing on Tom Waits' Blue Valentine album (e.g. Romeo is Bledding) as describing vastly superior character portrayals of 'American Isolation' without the writer having to tell us in a later interview what the song is actually supposed to be about.

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On 6/30/2021 at 1:21 PM, Frank said:

Well, the darkest numbers on the River, and their natural suite Nebraska, were the result of Bruce delving into traditional and country music, Hank Williams and Johnny Cash in particular. I think the Nebraska fully belongs to the blues and country tradition of "prison" or "criminal" music, in the vein of traditionals like Stagger (or Stack a) Lee, Robert Johnson's 32-20 Blues, Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison Blues, Bob Dylan's Ballad of Hollis Brown the Clash's I Fought the Law,  Steve Earle's John Walker's Blues and on. It's part of a specific musical genre. I don't see it as Bruce celebrating serial killers per se. 

I remember a quote from Bruce about some of the songs on the Nebraska record, and Johnny 99 in particular, that (I'm paraphrasing) these songs were about what happens to individuals when their sense of connection to their friends, their families, their loved ones, their jobs, their community and what essentially gives their lives meaning, fails them. So it's a warning sign both to individuals and to a society that allows it to happen.

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11 hours ago, Demos said:

That was very eloquently put by Bruce but the song itself taken on its own terms doesn't do that. You'd never know that was the purpose of the song without Bruce telling us. It merely summarises the plot of a Terence Mallick movie with a generic tune sung over a really quite unremarkable piece of music. I would still cite the writing on Tom Waits' Blue Valentine album (e.g. Romeo is Bledding) as describing vastly superior character portrayals of 'American Isolation' without the writer having to tell us in a later interview what the song is actually supposed to be about.

In my opinion, Mr. Springsteen work, from Greetings on wards, is by its own dialectic leading to this insight of the necessity of the ties that bind, and the dark shadow of alienation that erode humanity in the individual, that makes it possible for her to do the most awful things, sometimes as an immanent critique of an alienating society. So Mr. Springsteen, who him selves found himself in the nothingness of Nebraska way out in that little town in the west, an experience he so beautifully tell us about in his autobiography, tell us, what the heroes of his work them selves can not say, only act out. To see them not only as villains and murderers, but also as human beings, well Mr. Springsteen has helped us to do that, he has helped us to se us selves in the other, and in my opinion, that is great, great art.

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16 hours ago, ulfhpersson said:

In my opinion, Mr. Springsteen work, from Greetings on wards, is by its own dialectic leading to this insight of the necessity of the ties that bind, and the dark shadow of alienation that erode humanity in the individual, that makes it possible for her to do the most awful things, sometimes as an immanent critique of an alienating society. So Mr. Springsteen, who him selves found himself in the nothingness of Nebraska way out in that little town in the west, an experience he so beautifully tell us about in his autobiography, tell us, what the heroes of his work them selves can not say, only act out. To see them not only as villains and murderers, but also as human beings, well Mr. Springsteen has helped us to do that, he has helped us to se us selves in the other, and in my opinion, that is great, great art.

:lol: 

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On 6/30/2021 at 8:43 AM, Jertucky said:

Haven’t listened to the Rising in quite a while. I’d have to listen to Paradise again to analyze it.

I will say that I agree with you about 41 Shots. I don’t get the political angle of it either. It’s just kind a retelling of an actual incident. I never found it all that controversial or interesting, to be honest. I never really got the backlash. It also doesn’t help my view of the song that I first heard it on the Live CD where he tells the crowd to be quiet. So pompous. People paid a lot of money to go to a rock and roll concert and you’re hushing them, the same people that bought your daughter’s million dollar ‘orsey. You want quiet? Put on a Broadway show instead. Oh yeah, he’s got that now.

Code of Silence is a much better song.

Did you find it pompous during The Rising tour when he'd ask for quiet before Empty Sky & You're missing?

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2 hours ago, Krog2187 said:

Did you find it pompous during The Rising tour when he'd ask for quiet before Empty Sky & You're missing?

Did he? I went to one of those concerts and don’t listen to live CDs. I don’t recall him doing it at the show I was at but if he did, yes I would find it pompous. 
Is the shushing of the crowd something a lot of other artists do? As I said earlier, I’m not a big concert goer but I can’t recall anybody else ever doing that at a show I’ve been to. 

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5 minutes ago, gus said:

I will never understand the incessant talking during the shows. You have all day to spout your dribble. Shut up during the show.

So the opposite of “just shut up and play”?

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1 minute ago, gus said:

I will never understand the incessant talking during the shows. You have all day to spout your dribble. Shut up during the show.

Gus, love you, but this isn't about "talking through a song" yes I hate it also. This is about hopping and hollering, clapping and even singing through a song. Which Bruce discourages here. To the point of "shut up let me sing".

   

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13 minutes ago, Jertucky said:

Did he? I went to one of those concerts and don’t listen to live CDs. I don’t recall him doing it at the show I was at but if he did, yes I would find it pompous. 
Is the shushing of the crowd something a lot of other artists do? As I said earlier, I’m not a big concert goer but I can’t recall anybody else ever doing that at a show I’ve been to. 

He asked for "a little bit of quiet please" before those songs. I've been to shows and sometimes before the first slow song they'll ask for quiet.

 

I don't think Bruce is trying to be an asshole when he asks for quiet. I think it's more for concentration purposes, as well as getting the full effect of those songs.

 

For LINYC, I think he thought the crowd was cheering for the song as it may have been looked at as a fuck you to the NYPD and that was why they cheered. I think that pissed Bruce off and that's when he snapped with the "we need some quiet on this one."

 

Just my .02

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1 hour ago, Krog2187 said:

For LINYC, I think he thought the crowd was cheering for the song as it may have been looked at as a fuck you to the NYPD and that was why they cheered. I think that pissed Bruce off and that's when he snapped with the "we need some quiet on this one."

I'll go back to my original post and say Code of Silence is a bigger fuck you song to NYPD, then 41 Shots will ever be. 

And much more effective song!  

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1 hour ago, Jimmy James said:

I'll go back to my original post and say Code of Silence is a bigger fuck you song to NYPD, then 41 Shots will ever be. 

And much more effective song!  

Wait...how so? Code of Silence was written a couple years before Bruce was prompted to write American Skin. It's a song about nothing, which is perfectly fine because those songs are good once in a while, but nothing nonetheless. 

Another Thin Line, which he tried out around the same time...now there's a statement song.

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2 hours ago, HeroOfVirtue said:

Wait...how so? Code of Silence was written a couple years before Bruce was prompted to write American Skin. It's a song about nothing, which is perfectly fine because those songs are good once in a while, but nothing nonetheless. 

Another Thin Line, which he tried out around the same time...now there's a statement song.

A Code of Silence that don't dare speak! I always take this as Police corruption,  like a brotherhood. You see somethings wrong but you can't speak up. Thats why i thought he opened with this tune at the NYC shows. One of the few tunes you don't have to dissect to get to a meaning. So nothing! 

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1 hour ago, Jimmy James said:

A Code of Silence that don't dare speak! I always take this as Police corruption,  like a brotherhood. You see somethings wrong but you can't speak up. Thats why i thought he opened with this tune at the NYC shows. One of the few tunes you don't have to dissect to get to a meaning. So nothing! 

You are reading things into the lyrics that aren't there!  Well done.  I knew you could do it! :)

To me, Code of Silence reads as a song about a failing relationship.  The decision to open the Reunion MSG stand, in the context of the 41 Shots uproar, gives it additional meaning.

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Easy up there Roberto, the word "Code" to me sounds a bit official. As military or police conduct! 

So I believe it's about corruption. You believe it's about a bad relationship. And Hero believe it's about nothing. 

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Is anyone else finding it slightly amusing Jimmy is being called out for reading too much into the lyrics :lol:

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43 minutes ago, Jimmy James said:

Easy up there Roberto, the word "Code" to me sounds a bit official. As military or police conduct! 

So I believe it's about corruption. You believe it's about a bad relationship. And Hero believe it's about nothing. 

'S'all good, man.  I'm easy like Sunday morning. B)

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